I dont have a lot of time to write right now, but it started with what you wrote about the church in general. While there are some things I might agree with there, I used to reject church structure (i.e. government). I dont anymore.

I could understand how you would have no problem with women pastors if I subscribed to your view of church structure (which doesnt seem to be a structure at all).

Thats the root of our disagreement, unless I misunderstood what you were saying... which wouldnt be anything new! :-)

Krispy

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I am going off track a bit, but, how do you discover your spiritual gift. Seen test and that that seem more personality based.
And, do you find that you may be ministering in a scertain capacity for a while and then there is a shift.

Diane...

Reading your previous post in light of what you just posted… I got a different “meaning” behind what you were saying. Funny how that works!

There was much there that you said, and truly there are many “pastors” who were never called by God. They think that their college degree makes them called… or a talent for entertaining a crowd makes them called. Even an ability to teach does not mean they should teach in the church.

Do I think that women should never teach in the church? Let me preface my answer by saying that people tend to hear someone like me give an answer… and they don’t really listen to the answer. They hear what they want to hear and then take it to an extreme. Kind of like I did with you original post. We all do it.

I say I think the KJV is the best translation in English and they hear me say:

“The KJV is the ONLY English version we should read, and the translators were inspired as the Apostles were, and King James himself was just a notch below Jesus on the wonderful scale.”

Well, that’s not what I said. I said I think the KJV is the best translation in English… nothing more, nothing less.

So here is my answer: Women are not called to PASTOR a church or shepherd a church. Paul’s letters to Timothy and Titus bear it out that it is a position to be held by a man, and he explains exactly why. It goes back to the fall of Adam and Eve.

Women are also plainly forbidden to teach men IN THE CHURCH. That is, in the local fellowship. It never said they can not teach in the church… it said they can not teach MEN. The older woman are actually commanded to teach the younger women in the fellowship. And of course they are to teach the children. (and so are the men)

Outside of the church they are to proclaim the gospel. Proclaim it to all. Men, women and children.

But in the church, no, they are not to teach the men of the church.

Again, Paul explains why.

Can a woman teach a Christian man thru a para-church organization? Like a Beth Moore or someone like that? My personal opinion is no. When we teach we teach as one who has authority… and the principle is that a Christian woman should not exert authority over Christian men. So for me personally I think we would all do well to err on the side of being too conservative.

Paul even goes on to use the word "usurp", which means to take autority away from, or to steal one's authority. Women should not "usurp" the authority of the men in the church. Thats what the Bible says.

Finally, I recognize that God does use women in extreme circumstances where there are no men who are mature enough in the Lord to be able to shepherd a church… say on the mission field. But again, the woman is in that situation because some Christian man is being lazy and disobedient and did not answer the call. She went while a Christian man did not.

She is being obedient. God honors that, although it is not according to the way He orders. God is a God of order and not chaos. He used a donkey to speak to Balam because Balam was not listening. He used a fish to get Jonah’s attention.

Because they did not listen and heed Gods Word, He found another means in which to accomplish His will.

That’s where I stand on this. Hope it makes sense.

Krispy

Most excellent video of women preachers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZyHnau0--E&list=UU3qhHuErbmxJZElXWIGkrBQ&index=5&feature=plcp

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jimp said:
"hi jim, as i posted earlier that sat separately from the men as do the orth.jews do to this day and are and were to be silent in that situation.

jim says:
There are countless examples that christian men and woman are different in the Church and home. Not better or worse, just different.

jimp said:
we are a new creation in Gods eyes but not yours for you see only what you can see. jimp

jim says:
You speak from the flesh and I believe you are an older man who should be setting a better example for us younger ones. I fellowship in a more new testament pattern where sisters can pray, prophesy and share from the Lord along with the men. Yet this post is about a woman who has the name PASTOR in front of her name on the fellowship website. I will have to stick with the word of God and its outline of pastors and not bow to the whims of any man on that one. A sister is not to have that authority over a brother according to the apostles. I do see there are many super apostles on this site though that second guess Pauls instructions to the Church just as there were when he was alive.

I am thankful for those here who shared to help me figure out how this looks exactly in a new testament style local church. What I realize is that the word of God is very clear on the qualifications for an elder. Beyone that I am trying to see if there are things we are doing wrong, or not according to the spirit of the word of God.

I will only say again that the same apostle that wrote no male or female wrote countless instructions specifically to males and females in the home and church. Thankfully the most simple person on this website can recognize and accept that fact, even if we are not sure how that plays out in real life situations.

-Jim

Blaine said:
Do you both believe in the prophetic gifts? Do you both believe that prophesy and tongues operate today? Or do you hold that prophesy and tongues ceased after the first century? Just courious.

Brother, I do and sisters and brothers share the same in our meetings (NT style, not IC style). The word of God is clear on one thing, sisters are not to be pastors - to have that authority over brothers. We need to read adn accept the word of God even if it disagrees with our thinking. Paul was branded by Christ, forsook everything for Him, and with that mind of a servant of Christ thought wise by the Holy Spirit to give us clear instructions on this matter. Beyond that I am trying to see what some of the other less clear passages on the sisters in the NT style Church are. I am blessed to fellowship with sisters who actually encourage the brothers to be men, spiritual leaders, care for the flock of God. There are some distinct roles for sisters and brothers - that truth is undeniable in scripture. I only want to know the truth to avoid error on both sides. Most people fall into error by believing that there is only error on side, so they naturally fall into the ditch they are not even aware of.

God bless you brother.

Jim

leeza said:
"Krispy, think you have me confused with Lysa, I am leeza, the pharassitical trouble maker that started this mess :)"

Jim says:
I had you pegged as a pharisee from the get go.. (jk of course)

God bless -jim

Jim, you have the gift of discernment, apparently :)



12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


I haven't found anyone who will explain this verse yet!

Starting to think this should be a discussion on whether the bible is reliable, or negotiable.