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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Can Patriotism be Idolatry? - Andrew Strom

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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Jim I agree that patriotism can be idolatry but are you also saying that Christians should not want America to defend herself against her enemies like any other country would do.

Just trying to understand...brother rbanks

 2012/3/9 22:09Profile









 Re:

"Jim I agree that patriotism can be idolatry but are you also saying that Christians should not want America to defend herself against her enemies like any other country would do."

I have no problem with America defending herself. I am speaking of the church. Pledging allegiance to flags and nations, war and killing, these things are for the people of the world. This is idolatry for those who profess Christ. Our kingdom is not seen and all saints are part of that kingdom no matter what physical country they spend their time of pilgrimage in. Our allegiance is to King Jesus and His kingdom. Not to king ceaser. We should pay taxes to ceaser and pray for him, not pledge allegaince to him. That is idolatry.

When I hear of a US troop coming home and receiving a round of applause from his evangelical church it makes me want to vomit. When they stand and sing god bless america it makes me want to cry. When my friend recieves a gospel of John with an american flag on the cover and hear god bless our troops it makes my jaw drop.

This is what I mean. Replacing the kingdom and commendments of our Lord Jesus for the kingdoms and commandments of ceaser and calling it christianity still. The ultimate example of this is rome from Constantine up through the dark ages.

Thank you for your honest question rbanks, even if we dont agree. God bless.

 2012/3/9 22:25
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Jim we agree more than you realize I guess I just leave some things alone because of lack of understanding of how to go about it to keep away from the risk of being misunderstood for the good I want to achieve for the Lord. I just focus more on the preaching of the Word in positive fashion concerning the altar, the blood, and the cross in the power of the Holy Spirit.

I read some on your blogs and I can see you have done a lot of study and research on this and it has become a passion to you to get this message out and I do hope you the best brother even if I haven't felt the call to go about the way you have. Blessings...brother rbanks

 2012/3/9 22:44Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Jim,

It is the way young Christian men have been taught.

They have been taught that Christianity and Patriotism are synonymous.

There were many born-again Christians taught the same thing in Germany. If you refused their draft you could go to jail or be killed, too.

Picture this: Born-again Christians in Germany killing born-again Christians in America in WWII and vice-versa.

Even John the Baptist said to a soldier, "Be content with your wages and do harm to no man". And that was before the New Covenant was "signed" in Jesus' blood.

But again, we must look at Israel at the time of Christ. We're not talking America, but the Nation of Israel!!!
They were occupied by a foreign army. I challenge anyone to show me where early church Christians resisted their occupiers. You won't find it because they knew that Jesus taught non-resistance. So did Paul (Romans 12 and 13).

I have found through the years that this is a very difficult thing for American Christians to receive and understand. They will call you passive and quote that famous quote, "The only thing for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". This quote is treated like God's Word.

I think we have to keep gently and patiently telling people what God's word says and be encouraged because I have seen some come around to seeing the truth. We should not be fighting this world's battles. Most if not all of them revolve around greed and power but America's wars are always presented as altruistic. Of course they are! They have to be in order to get Christians to voluntary join their armies to kill the "bad guys".

I have realized that there will always be those that will fight wars in the flesh in the name of Jesus Christ.

Pilgrim



 2012/3/9 22:49Profile









 Re:

" I just focus more on the preaching of the Word in positive fashion concerning the altar, the blood, and the cross in the power of the Holy Spirit."

Amen. I preach these things too on the streets to the lost and teach them in my living room to my family. Yet I have to cry aloud and lift my voice like a trumpet to the house of jacob - the visible church. To not do so would be to let my conscience down. I understand you are not called to do the same. There is one body and many members...

 2012/3/9 22:53









 Re:

WWI prepared Israel for the Jews, WWII prepared the Jews to return to Israel, WWIII will be much of the world against the Jew, WWIV will be all of the world against the Jew, and WWV will be Satan's Dominion against the Dominion of Christ. Christ Himself fights the last war, BEFORE He executes the Great White Throne judgment.

There is a time and a place for each war, that is why even the apostles carried swords. The only problem comes when each side determines that theirs is the righteous cause. In most cases there is no righteous cause, at best there may only pockets of 'righteousness' within a cause.

Recommended reading is "War and Grace" by Don Stephens


Eccl 3:1-8

3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.


OJ

 2012/3/10 0:12





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