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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Can Patriotism be Idolatry? - Andrew Strom

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 Re:

"Sacralism - often called Constantinianism"

I was thinking about some recent SI posts where professing christians are railing on president Obama and how he is destroying america. That shows the people involved are caught up in the affairs of the world and do not have a pilgrim mindset. To them, there kingdom (america) is coming under attack by those nasty muslims/communists/liberals/fill in the blank so they must protect their kingdom(america).

They get angry when people talk like I am because, to them, I am attacking their kingdom (america). They have the wrong kingdom.

 2012/3/9 19:43









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Let me say it another way.

I rail that patriotic idolatry is coming into the church and it is wrong. I say this because my concern is Gods kingdom. They get angry at me for this and call me names in other threads.

Yet the very same will rail against president Obama. Its not my railing that they are against - it all comes to where our allegiance is. The first group are upset that their kngdom (america) is coming under attack by muslims/liberals/etc. The second group are upset that their kingdom (of God) is coming under attack by the first group by way of patriotic idolatry. Both groups are defending the kingdom they cherish in their hearts.

 2012/3/9 19:49
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Jim said, "as an american citizen i do find that people become extremely offended when someone tries to speak the truth about america and her counterfeit-israel."

It's a little hard to tell where the comment from Andrew Strom's forum finishes, Jim, but in any case I agree with you.

And I know you will take a lot of flak for it. This is an extremely sensitive issue; there is so much misunderstanding over this whole matter of who is "Israel" and who isn't-- with people who love the Lord on both sides of the issue.

The answer lies in a thorough and enlightened understanding of the New Covenant.

At the same time I don't think it's wrong to be patriotic for the country we live in-- within limits defined and governed by our patriotism to the heavenly Zion. What I mean is, I live in Canada. And I love Canada. But I am broken hearted over Canada theses days. I hate some of the things she has sold herself to.

I agree with you that "no one with sense" should be defending America (or Canada) these days. But we should be making intercession (as Abraham did when he got the news of Sodom's pending destruction).

...We love the nations we live in. But ultimately as Christians (whether Jew or Gentile) our citizenship is in Heaven-- in the heavenly Zion. Here we have no continuing city. Jerusalem which is above is our "mother-land," if I can use that word (Gal. 4.26). Israel-- the heavenly Israel-- is our homeland. This is where our inheritance lies. And they that say such things confess they are strangers and pilgrims in the earth, regardless of what country they sojourn in.

I am thankful to read that, though they be despised in the earth, God says He is not ashamed to be acknowledged as the God of those who make such a claim. "For He hath prepared for them a City" (Heb. 11.14-15).

Allan Halton


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Allan Halton

 2012/3/9 19:54Profile









 Re:

"To them, there kingdom (america) is coming under attack by those nasty muslims/communists/liberals/fill in the blank so they must protect their kingdom(america)."

The ultimate end of this is a young christian putting on a uniform and going to war for his kingdom (america) to protect her interests (oil among the top) against her perceived enemies. Where Christ called us to lay down our lives to reach the world with the Gospel - american jesus calls his followers to lay down their lives to reach her perceived enemies with a bullet. My heart is broken within me over this. It all starts with the brainwashing of the christian right, subtle hatred towards democrats, muslims, homosexuals... fear mongering, hatred, lies, corporate greed... "god" bless america. Its the greatest kingdom most church members will ever be a part of.



 2012/3/9 20:01
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:


When I first read the thread title my response was: "Of course it can, anything can be an idol even the best of things."


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/3/9 21:08Profile









 Re:

"It's a little hard to tell where the comment from Andrew Strom's forum finishes, Jim, but in any case I agree with you."

Sorry for the confusion brother/sister. The original comment was all copy-pasted from the old revival school site. None of it was me writing.

In Christ -jim

 2012/3/9 21:23
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I was impressed by Richard Wurmbrand response when Russia invaded Romania. He saw it as a opportunity for the Kingdom of God. So, being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove, he outfitted children with Christian tracts and let them go out into the streets to give them to the Russian soldiers. He mentioned that the Russian soldiers loved little children and they eagerly took the tracts.

I am brushing up on my spanish so that I can share the Gospel with the illegal immigrants from Mexico and other South American countries. More and more Indians (from India) are coming to America and of course Muslims. I don't have to go to other countries since God is bringing them to me. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Rosicrucians (from Iran), etc, etc.

These are all opportunities the Lord is giving us to reach people we would never have had a chance to reach with the Good News.

Pilgrim

 2012/3/9 21:42Profile
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Remember the Lord's and His Apostles' conduct while on earth? Israel was occupied by a foreign army and they did not resist (protest or fight in the flesh). "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight".

What will American Christians do if their country is ever occupied? I already know what many who name the name of Jesus would do. They would pick up arms and fight flesh and blood in the name of Jesus Christ.

May the Lord help us all to see Him and to know Him.

Pilgrim

 2012/3/9 21:46Profile









 Re:

"What will American Christians do if their country is ever occupied?"

Our country can never be occupied but by blood bought soldiers of our king - for our country is not of this world! Amen.

"I already know what many who name the name of Jesus would do. They would pick up arms and fight flesh and blood in the name of Jesus Christ. "

Just look at what is happening in the churches today. We have no draft, yet christians are commended for joining ceasers army and going over to the desert to shoot and kill. They are applauded when they come back home during service and this is just a percieved threat (propogated by the military industrial complex) that we are dealing with - all muslims are bomb making boogey men type mentality.

I do not write this against those who have served in the military - but against the whole rotten stinking system that leads us away from Christ and HIS kingdom that is not of this world.

In Him -Jim

 2012/3/9 21:59









 Re:

Pilgrim writes.....

"Remember the Lord's and His Apostles' conduct while on earth? Israel was occupied by a foreign army and they did not resist (protest or fight in the flesh). "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight".

It is interesting who did fight the occupiers, Barrabas for one. And who did the multitude clamor for when they had the choice? Pilate laid before the crowd, a zealot or Jesus. They of course chose Barrabas. I wonder who the crowd would choose today? (rhetorical question)........ bro Frank

 2012/3/9 22:01





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