| Can Patriotism be Idolatry? - Andrew Strom|
-Can Patriotism be Idolatry? (ie. Can our country become a kind of god to us?)
-Can Patriotism also become prideful?
-Is this a problem in the church today?
-Will many Christians get mad if we question this?
-If we mix Patriotism in with Christianity, will it start to distort the whole message and mission of the church?
-In other words, will we start to become activists not just for Jesus, but for Patriotism too?
-Is it true that Hitler used Patriotism to manipulate the German people and whip them up to go to war?
-Are there voices in TV and Radio today using Patriotism to whip up the Christians?
-Do you think we can be easily manipulated if they appeal to our Patriotism?
-Now just a couple of questions about the USA-
-Is the US still a force for righteousness in the earth?
-When we look at the movies, the TV and the music put out by the USA which dominates Western culture all around the world -
what kind of influence does the US have today?
-When we look at this massive influence and leadership, does she seem to be a force for light or more for greed, sex, materialism and spiritual corruption?
-So is America mostly spreading good or spreading evil in the world?
-Why then should we defend her as though what she is doing in the earth is Christian?
I realize that these questions will make some people mad. But I am hoping that we will really think about these things and I would love to hear your opinions.
| 2012/3/8 19:30|
| Re: Can Patriotism be Idolatry? - Andrew Strom|
A comment on Andrews forum read:
earthly patriotism is idolatry, absolutely. there is only one nation believers should be loyal to and that is israel ((((and im not talking about the zionist political state in the middle east)))) but the true KINGDOM of YAH. paul was a roman citizen and while it afforded him certain benefits he was able to use for YAHs glory, namely taking the gospel to pagans with the added testimony of being in chains for his beliefs, he never came across as patriotic to the roman state in any sense of the word. america is absolutey spreading evil lies and a false picture of christianity. the god mentioned on the her paper money is in no way the Almighty Father in heaven.
as an american citizen i do find that people become extremely offended when someone tries to speak the truth about america and her counterfeit-israel. there are christians here who are extremely patriotic and claim they are willing to die for israel unfortunately they are blind, and their loyalty is to earthly political entitys.
i do not know how much influence americas movies and television has had globabally, but americas vain and perverted entertainment has definitely got its own citizens thinking they are living in some hollywood movie that they themselves are the star of. praying to someday get their big break and make a few million so they can be even lazier and get a so-called-reality tv show to brag about it on.
no one with sense should be defending america, they should be exposing her for what she is (a whore) and warning her to repent before its too late.
i didnt answer every question you asked here.. but felt a fire kindled by them enough to rant this off.
| 2012/3/8 19:32|
| Re: |
I have been making that charge for years and taking a beating for it :) ........ bro Frank
| 2012/3/8 20:20|
| Re: |
Me too, Frank, me too.
Keep shining your light.
| 2012/3/8 22:07||Profile|
| Re: |
I think we are seeing in many cases a mixture of both patriotism and conservatism in with Christianity. Obviously, these are not the same things and don't belong together.
Robert Wurtz II
| 2012/3/8 22:14||Profile|
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Amen bro Robert. I see something very dark on the horizon as we see this mixture. This is far from the first time in history where nationalism, conservatism and Christianity get mixed up, good things do not happen when that happens.
Its ironic for me because prior to coming to the Lord at the age of 27, I was a very nationalistic Scotsman. Scotland has a nationalism that is legend, goes back almost 1000 years, so I have had that coursing through my veins. Yet, that blood was replaced by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and amongst many other radical changes, I found it completly dissapeared. Now I am very nationalistic for the New Jerusalem, the Kingdom of God of which we as Christians are citizens. We are sojourners here on earth. We have been called to be Ambassadors. An Ambassador is sent to a foriegn land to represent his leader, his country. He can only speak what his president or King or Prime minister's policy is. He does not get embroiled in the politics of the land that he has been sent too. He is a representative.......... bro Frank
| 2012/3/8 23:58|
| Re: Can Patriotism be Idolatry? - Andrew Strom|
Next Question. :)
| 2012/3/9 8:54||Profile|
| Re: A New Idolitry|
Patriotism is idolitry. Perhaps in recent history where nation worship was idolitrous was Nazi Germany. When you view the archival footage you see the torch light parades, the banners, the hysteria, and the crowd worshipping Adolf Hitler who embodied Germany. Of course there was evil evil demonic prsence behind Nszism. To speak of that would require another thread. But the Germans who followed Hitler were loyal and patriotic.
Then there were the fanatical Japaneese. They were loyal to thre empereor whom they considered divine. The armed forces of Japan had a strict patriotism that gave no regard to their own lives. This was why, in many days, the Pacific war was more brutal. The Japaneese fault to the last man out of patriotic loyalty to their emperor. This is why you have kamikazi pilots diving plans full of explosives into U S ships. The pilots knew it was sucuide. Patriotism compelled them to do it.
Communism commands worship of the state. The state is god. And you belong to the state. You worship anything other than the state then you are jailed or executed. This is why Christians are persecuted in places like Eritrea, N. Korea, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, China, etc. The state is supreme. It will not tolerate any challenge to its control over individuals.
And their is America? Do we worship America? Yes, we do. I have met Christians who believe the U S Constitution is as inspired as the Bible. They belueve the American flag is just as sacred as the cross. You go into many American churches the American flag is is up at the front of the church with the cross. This would have been unthinkable in a first century church. You would not have seen the Roman eagle standard at the front of the.church. Though the first century Christians obeyed ceasar's laws and prayer for him, namely for his soul. They would not worship Caesar or pray to him. Because of their lack of patriotism the early Christians were persecuted.
Believers have this misguided idea that America is special in God's eyes and we are the new jersulem. Nothing can be further from the truth. America is no more special in God's eyes then any other nation. Particularly regarding the judgement to come. Our American citizenship will not save us but only the blood of Jesus.
We must repent of this worship of America and worship Jesus. We must repent of this nationalistic pride and boast only in Jesus. For the Constitution will not save you, the American flag can not save you, Rick Santorom or Kit Romney or Barrak Obama cannot save you. Only Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords can save you.
Posted by Blaine Scogin
| 2012/3/9 16:30|
| Re: Caesar or Christ|
In the first two centuries Christians were persecuted because they woukd not offer q sacrifice to Caesar. In effect, worshipping him as god. The Roman government viewed this as indication of being a good citizen. Pledging their allegiance to Caesar and the government. The Christians saw this idolitry. They saw sacrificing to Caesar as worshipping another god. For such a view thousands were nartyred.
Do we not do the same thing in our Pledge of Allegiance to the flag? When we put our hand over our heart are we not worshipping the flag over Christ? When we give our allegiance to the flag and the country for which it stands are we not worshipping America over Christ?
As I have pondered the above questions my answer is a resounding YES. When we hold our hand over our hearts and pledge allegiance to the flag we are committing the biggest act of idolitry imaginable.
I cannot not will not pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. For me to do so is an act of idokitry as the first century Christians envisoned. It us an act of idolitry against Christ. There is only One who is worthy of allegiance and that us Jesus.
Several years ago Ray Bolts wrote a song entitled I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb. Very powerful words written to honor the Lamb who was slain for our done. Only he, Jesus, is worthy of our devotion and praise. Only Jesus is worthy of our allegiance.
| 2012/3/9 16:56|
| Re: Pikiticak Ideologies????|
If patriotism is idolitry then so is the philosophy that drives the patriotism. Marxist doctrine demands worship and allegiance to the state. Various other ideologies such as national socialism or nazism, Japaneese mikitarism,Russian communism, and so forth ultimatly resulted in patriotism.
What of our liberal or conservative ideologies. In their own way they compel patriotism, allegiance, even worship of the state. If its liberal then it gives rise to state control. If conservatism then a large military and business. Simplistic but true. The bottom line is state allegiance.
Again our doctrine must be the word of the Lamb. It must be the Word if God himself who lives in us that directs our hearts into his allegiance.
Posted by Blaine Scogin
| 2012/3/9 17:29|