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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Tongues: Controversial, Foolish and Offensive yet a Mysterious+Powerful Weapon in Spiritual Warfare

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gators52
Member



Joined: 2011/9/21
Posts: 63
Central Florida

 Re:

JIG, yes this is true, God will give us the interpretation. And He can show us what we are praying about in the Spirit. I saw an evil spirit leave a sick baby and he was well the next day as I prayed for him in tongues. I love the quote that a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. Blessings to ALL;-)


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Brian

 2012/3/12 16:00Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hi thank-you all for your replies, they were all very helpful. Thank you for all your advice and wisdom and thank you Lysa for your encouragements!

I have come to understand as said that I need to do both, though I have not quite figured out how long I should spent in praying in english, tongues and groaning. I also have not figured out how long to spend in worship both in english and tongues and on simply meditating on scripture and who He is. I guess there is probably not a formula to the above. sometimes I feel like I pray and do not rejoice enough but I am also scared of rejoicing to much and not praying!

I have discerned my flesh is trying to pull me into praying in English in a fleshly way and not in spirit but rather repetitive fleshly petitions where I think I will be heard because of my many word. I am still understandings how to pray in spirit in english and not just in tongues or groaning.

I would like to clarify one comment that was made
"Evangel, stick with English. I have never heard any tongues that aren't repetitive, in a really repetitive manner and I know scripture warns us against repetitive prayer."

Thank you for your advice I know it is done in love but
actually when I pray in tongues it is not just a few syllables but I can clearly hear that it varies a lot. I would also like to point out that any language will sound repetitive to a listener who does not speak it because languages in general use the same phonetic articulation however slight varies can drastically change a meaning.

Cooksta, I guess I don't really know how to respond because your saying that I am just crazy and that the spirit does not pray through groaning or tongues.

I think I would like to point out that the Spirit inside is groaning but it needs a body to pray through and the Spirit lives inside of US.

Jesus prays for us outside of ourselves but Romans 8:26 says the spirit HELPS us in our weakness we do not know to pray. This implies there is a part we must do and it is not as simple as He does everything for us.

I would also so say that it does say in the bible that tongues is a prayer language

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also

In Christ
Evangel

In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/12 19:41Profile
Dlight
Member



Joined: 2011/9/24
Posts: 49


 Re:

Evangel,

Your post about your prayer life raised a RED flag. Groaning in the spirit is indeed a good thing, but mustn't you know what you're groaning about? Especially if it comprises the bulk of your prayer life. If with your understanding you cannot sustain prayer the same way you do in tongues, it's not a good sign. I say this with love.

One thing that I have learned in my walk with God is that we must know Him - and to know Him means to be able to speak with Him as we would an earthly father, master, friend, lord etc. Listen to Bob Jennings, David Wilkerson, Paul Washer - listen to how they pray. You can tell they pray often, and they KNOW their God. They love Him, and are intimate with Him. (These are a few examples, only because they're the first that came to mind.) Particularly, listen to the prayer Bob Jennings says in the first 5 minutes of this sermon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrpNoXNnir0

I am in no way discouraging you from speaking in tongues, but be VERY careful if you do not relish in time spent with God in your understanding. For me, it shows an underlying problem.

Personally, I do not speak in tongues; but I believe that it is a gift that the Spirit still gives freely today as HE wills. I groan and weep in prayer, though, especially when I intercede for others, weep for my own life, or whilst in the midst of worship, thanksgiving, praise, adoration, repentance, petition etc. I always know what I am groaning about. I also pray without groans i.e. speaking with my voice. It is no more a burden to groan than it is to speak calmly with God. And I relish both 'ways' of praying, and others including singing, dancing etc. (This is just to show that it is indeed possible and GOOD to pray calmly in English and still pray with great fervency.)

Please, please, receive this post kindly. I do not mean to offend. But seek to KNOW God and to be able to worship Him with understanding and knowledge. The single most important thing for the Christian is to know God. Jeremiah 9:23-24 It's not a good sign if you cannot sustain a 'conversation' with Him.


In love,
Dlight.

 2012/3/12 21:20Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """Jesus prays for us outside of ourselves but Romans 8:26 says the spirit HELPS us in our weakness we do not know to pray. This implies there is a part we must do and it is not as simple as He does everything for us."""

If Christ is interseeding for us and He lives in us where is He praying from.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

Who worketh in you mightily? Who are you striving for, self, or according to His working in you. We cannot make anything happen for the kingdom, only His working in us and us striving according to His work. How can we pray and receive revelation from the Holy Spirit of who this Christ that is in us is, unless we pray and listen with understanding.

Christ is in you and He is now your life, let Him come forth, quit trying to make your prayer life such a chore, Love God and speak to our loving Father and enter His rest.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

He is our Rest, In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/3/12 22:29Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: EvangelTam

Quote:
evangeltam wrote:
I have come to understand as said that I need to do both, though I have not quite figured out how long I should spent in praying in english, tongues and groaning.


Brother,

I can tell you that time praying in the Spirit is exponential compared to our time so I wouldn’t worry about how much of “your” time you spend praying; if you get my drift. :)

Quote:
evangeltam wrote:
I also have not figured out how long to spend in worship both in english and tongues and on simply meditating on scripture and who He is. I guess there is probably not a formula to the above. sometimes I feel like I pray and do not rejoice enough but I am also scared of rejoicing to much and not praying!


Brother, may I speak bluntly? All this worry... this is the enemy that is side-railing you about how much time to do what and when; just get in there and start doing what you KNOW to do and feel led to do by the Spirit and follow Him. And if you don’t feel led to do anything then start praising Him and see where He takes you. Have you ever sang in tongues (singing in the Spirit)? I encourage you to allow your Holy Spirit to sing a new song through you, that is worship... wooo hooo!

PLease remember, it is the Lord who knows what He wants and when He wants it and how much of it He wants!! Don’t let the laws of your flesh try to dictate to the Spirit.

God bless you, Brother, all He is looking for is a willing vessel!!
Lisa


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Lisa

 2012/3/12 23:40Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Amen Lisa.


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Travis

 2012/3/13 15:25Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hey Lysa,

Thanks for your encouragement it was very helpful and loving =)
Yeah I am pretty religious when it comes to prayer but the Spirit has slowly been renewing my mind!

In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/16 10:05Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Evangel et.al.:

In your original post you pointed to the controversy over tongues. I thought I might address this a little bit.

First of all, we must be careful that we don't confuse some results of Pentecost with Pentecost itself. Jesus said that we would receive power after that the Holy Ghost was come upon us and we would be witnesses (martyrs). Paul taught in 1 Cor. 2 that his teaching was by this empowerment. Jesus said that He did nothing of Himself but acted as a man empowered by the Holy Spirit. The purpose of Pentecost is empowerment.

Now along with empowerment come gifts, tongues, etc. Some people have genuinely and legitimately experienced physical effects of this power in their bodies from time to time, e.g. "falling out" or shaking or the like. I think the problem has been that a great many believers have come to confuse effects of Pentecost with Pentecost itself. So they have, in their own soul realm, sought to reproduce the effects in lieu of the power and even confused the effects with the power itself. So we have created cultures within fellowships that are really very odd. I can almost tell what group you are from by watching your "culture" where the things of the Holy Spirit are concerned.

So it is no wonder that many oppose Pentecost so strongly. Based on what they have seen, I might have been tempted to do so as well. We need to focus on the real purpose of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and not confuse the occasional effects that the Holy Spirit has on people with the Holy Spirit Himself.

That being said, don't look down on or despise the things that happen as a result of the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person. I remember one time as I prayed in my back yard that I experienced the power of God so strongly that I could hardly stand up. It was that night that God showed me in a vision something that was to come. It is the only time that has ever happened to me, and it was a very strong encouragement to me. But I don't seek to reproduce that event. I seek God and seek to allow Him to work through me to allow me to lay my life down and be empowered in ministry by the Holy Spirit.

I believe very strongly in the present day operation of all nine gifts of the Holy Spirit. I have seen them all in operation at one point or another and I have had God use me in a couple of them as He willed. But I must realize that the gifts are tools to be used by God through a person that He has empowered for ministry. I covet earnestly the gifts as I am told in the last verse of 1 Cor. 12, but I do so in the context of their intended purpose as Paul goes on to explain in 1 Cor. 13, that being to have His love flow from me to those He desires to minister to through me. They are a means that God uses to accomplish His ends, not an end in themselves.


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Travis

 2012/3/16 11:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am in no way discouraging you from speaking in tongues, but be VERY careful if you do not relish in time spent with God in your understanding. For me, it shows an underlying problem.

Actually, the speaking in tongues requires faith, like everything else that is connected to God. To speak in tongues while praying is believing that what your uttering (though it sounds foolish) is speaking to God.

The act of speaking this is no different than the act of "feeling" God out when you feel led to speak to someone with which God would like to convey. Both require faith and both seem just as foolish.

The speaking in tongues does the same thing, it makes us look stupid, but faith especially when the thing spoken bears fruit, brings silence to the accusers that oppose it.

Have you ever been told by God to do something and then you reason it out by saying, "She'll think I am crazy if I tell her that", or "They won't believe me", or "What if I am wrong?" We all think that because we think that the errand will make us look stupid.

Faith always looks foolish, it's subject to the law of God but our minds are not. Therefore our mind rejects anything that we can't reason out logically at least at the first.

The Speaking in Tongues cannot be reasoned out logically.

The more time spent speaking in tongues in prayer the more my understanding is opened regarding Spiritual thing. That is why I don't spend a lot of time speaking in tongues in prayer because the more I do the more I have to be responsible for what I have been given, I am no dummy. lol

Luke 12:48 .......For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I prefer the here a little there a little approach.

The Lord told me years ago to consult Him then a commentary, to receive spiritual understanding over what another man has said. Well guess what, my library is full of commentaries, ancient and new alike. The old flesh eh, it likes to go against the Spirit. Though I have them, I rarely touch them.

There is nothing like receiving a word directly from the mouth of God today.

To be clear, to those that don't speak in tongues, I am not saying that you can't obtain understanding if you don't speak in tongues, that is utter nonsense. So don't even go there with me.

Be Blessed Beloved!

 2012/3/16 11:21





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