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EvangelTam
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Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Tongues: Controversial, Foolish and Offensive yet a Mysterious+Powerful Weapon in Spiritual Warfare

Hello All,

So the reason why I am posting this is primarily to edify believers to:

1.Use this gift more in their day to day personal lives
2. Encourage believers to ask for this gift if they do not have it
3. See how it is necessary, important and God ordained function in the church

The purpose of this is not to discourage believers who do not have the gift.

Recently I posted a thread asking for the history of tongues throughout church history, it turned out to become another long discussion on the matter of tongues. Also recently the topic of tongues has been brought up more in my own life and so I thought I would share the things I have learned from other believers and from the Holy Spirit on the mystery, power and God ordained purpose of tongues in the church.

I will share a few quick thoughts and testimonies.
Please only respond if the purpose is for that stated above

1.I first want to point out the utter foolishness of tongues. Think about it, to absolutely everyone it is foolish. To unbelievers, to believers and even to those who have the gift! It is an offence to our human reasoning and pride! Many times even after receiving the gift believers will not use it because of its offence and foolishness to others and themselves. It doesn't make sense to them how babbling strange sounds can be helpful or benefit others.

But it was this foolish thing that God used to START the early church! Think of 120 people speaking in tongues to the point that the carnal mind sees them as drunk! But God in this foolishness used it to display His wisdom and 3000 people were saved! It was tongues that scattered people centuries before and now tongues that now brought people together in Christ! WOW the wisdom of God in using this foolishness!

I would say that if God used this foolishness to start the church, should we not continue with it to maintain a spiritually strong church? I believe there is a reason why Paul takes time to say "do not forbid speaking in tongues"

2. Recently I came across a book called "the Glory Within" by Corey Russel (http://www.coreyrussell.org/?page_id=647) which specifically talks about the power, mystery and benefit of speaking in tongues to deepen the inner life of a believer. The back of the books says this

“Amazing, The Apostle Paul said, “I pray in tongues more than you all.” Why? Why such a boast? There must have been some outrageous power and blessing in it for the greatest Apostle to herald it. And if so there must be a great recovery of that ancient tongue of fire. My friend, Corey Russell in this book with fiery impetus puts a compelling demand on that recovery. It’s not just words. For four years, I’ve watched this man’s prayer life – much tongues in the Spirit leading to the mighty tongues of fire on his own life."

I would also like to add that Paul also said "I thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you" and "I wish you all spoke in tongues" Many times we discredit and glaze over these words because of other points he makes such as desiring prophecy more than tongues HOWEVER the latter does NOT override the former they are both truths that need to be taken into consideration.

In light if what I read in scripture of Paul testifying that he prayers unceasingly I would say he used this gift a lot and that it played a crucial part in his own ministry.

If the apostles Paul used this gift and he was raised by God to be an example to all the church throughout the ages then should be not follow in the footsteps of this mighty servant?

3. Tongues is a gift from God and it is perfect (James 1:17)
When someone gives a gift it is a very personal thing and is done because that person loves and cares for us and believes that the gift will help us or benefit us in some way. Now in a human relationship the persons intentions may be correct but perhaps he does not know you as well as he/she thinks they do and the gift is not beneficial in anyway however if you love them you will still receive it and try to use it because you know they put their heart in it.

How much more for our Heavenly Father who knows us inside and out? When He gives a gift He knows it is best for us and He does it out of His infinite LOVE for us!

But many times we do not use this gift and we miss out on something that was supposed to benefit us soo much, even worse we reject this gift from our Father who intended it for good and throw it back in His face, even worse many times we also demonize it and call what God gave as perfect evil.

I would think that this breaks His heart and should offend Him but I think that He is very gracious and compassionate.
Personally, I would feel so horrible if I did that to my earthly Father even more so my heavenly Father.

Tongues is a part of WHO GOD IS. It is written in His Word thought up BY HIM. Christ is the Word in the flesh in Isaiah 50:4 it says

The Lord GOD has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple.

Paul also references Isaiah 28:11 as a prophecy on the gift of tongues in 1 Cor 14

Yes this also talks of the ministry of preaching and teaching the Word but I believe it also is a reference to tongues as well.

Thus to reject tongues is to reject a part of who Christ is!
Since He is the Word in the flesh which included the above verses.


4.The Mystery of Tongues
When we speak in tongues it unlocks the profound mysteries that was going on in the spirit of Christ as He walked the earth.

1 Cor 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

it also says in the word
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

When we allow the gift of the Spirit inside of us to pray through us the Spirit brings deep understandings into our spirit of the deep things of God.

Now I want to point out that this passage from 1 Corthians 2 isnt specifically referring to tongues but those with the Spirit in general (meaning all believers) but it does also apply to tongues as well as to those with other gifts of the Spirit because they function through the Spirit inside of us. In short it allows us to see a different aspect of Christ but does not us better.

5. The power of speaking in tongues
I want to share a few powerful testimonies of tongues

For myself personally tongues has helped deliever my soul from a lot of bondage to fear and given my boldness and much joy.

In the book Chasing the Dragon by Jackie Pullinger
God used the gift of tongues to deliever converts who were ex drug addicts from their addictions painlessly!

In the book the Glory Within

A church i beleive in south america was encouraged to pray in tongues all the time unceasingly as much as possible

A farmer in the congregation would speak in tongues as he was driving the tractor. One day his co worker did not show up and he found him dead in a shack. He had hung himself and there was a putrid smell. Immediately his flesh told him to run but because of his constant communion in the spirit he was led to stay and stared to pray in tongues. As he continued to pray a phrase start to form "I praise you Jesus you have gained the victory" as he said these lines the corpse sat up. The man was SHOCKED and again in his flesh he wanted to run but his spirit told him to stay. As he continued to pray the corpse came to life and the dead man received Christ right then and there.

One last testimony I believe that is in the book:
A student in seminary was asked to help a pastor teaching there in a deliverance. He was told to pray with a group of other students in a corner, in a chapel in tongues. As they start to pray the demon manifested and the voice of the man possessed change and said "stop praying" immediately the pastor commanded the demon the translate what they were saying the man answered "they are proclaiming the victory of Jesus" encourged by this the students continued to pray louded until the demon was casted out.

I guess some would ask why could demons understand a language from God? I would say that in 1 Cor 13 Paul talks about the tongues of men AND angels....very simple demons are fallen angels so it makes sense they know what they were saying.

I hope this post encourages you in faith.
I know that it will encourage those that it needs too and was meant too!

blessings
In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/7 19:40Profile









 Re: Tongues: Controversial, Foolish and Offensive yet a Mysterious+Powerful Weapon in

Brother after reading your post I am encouraged to use my prayer language more. I din't despise the gift and gave gone in record to say I speak in tongues. My problem us I simply don't think about it. I am using it mire in con calls. As I pray quietly in tongues it helps keep my mind in Jesus and agree with the other person's orayer.

In the con call I am part of we call out for the nations and pray against demonic forces in those nations. Tongues add power to our prayers.

So bravo for this thread. I pray you get some good testimonies to encourage others to use this marvelous gift.

Blaine

 2012/3/7 20:39
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Tongues: Controversial, Foolish and Offensive yet a Mysterious+Powerful Weapon in

Evangel:

Just a note of clarification for anyone who might be tempted to think that anyone would imply that someone who does not speak in tongues is unspiritual or seen as somehow less in the Kingdom of God. When we are born again we do receive the indwelling and abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit with the accompanying gifts of the Spirit and ability to pray in tongues is for the purpose of empowerment for ministry. It is a subsequent experience that is freely available from Jesus for anyone who desires it.

I have found praying in tongues to be a vital and important part of my Christian walk. I am edified as I pray in tongues. When I don't know how to pray I can, by faith, pray in tongues over the situation knowing full well that my spirit prays the hidden things that I cannot see but that the Spirit of God who is in full fellowship with my born again spirit knows full well. (1 Cor. 2).

Thanks for the post.


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Travis

 2012/3/8 9:43Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hey Twayneb,

Thanks for your clarification on this issue!

martyr, I am glad that you were encouraged may the Lord continue to bless you!

In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/8 12:48Profile









 More than you all!...[ Paul]

It is very interesting to me, that so many Christians have either believed tongues ended in the "Apostolic Age", or they are just plain demonic, and evil.

So, Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? Does He change His personality in a time line? and become someone else? I think not. It is the great lie of Dispensationalism: IE:...that God changes his relationship and personality according to a time line. Not.

The Apostle who healed the sick also said of himself, vs: the entire rest of the Church...."I speak in tongues more than you all!"....so...if the tongues indictment as being wicked, then Paul was a heretic. Yet, these same folks revel in the fact that they believe God Heals.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;

"They shall speak with new tongues!"

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Paul also noted; "Do all speak in tongues?"...which I believe implies that No!..not all did. I certainly cannot base my fellowship on whether or not a person speaks in tongues or not. It really has nothing to do with what really matters; THE FRUIT of that person. This is God's goal, and the nature of fellowship, not the gifts.

I have spoke in tongues for 40 years...and cannot imagine my worship life, and intercession life without it. It is as natural as breathing to me. However, this needs to be addressed.

I've been in hundreds and hundreds of Pentecostal/Spirit Filled meetings, and over the course of time, heard scores of "tongues and interpretations". I do not necessarily believe that a single one of them are authentic.

I believe that people; often the "prophets" or leaders of that church, would use this gift and "make it up as they went along". Often it seemed uplifting....like "everyone gets a blessing today because God is with you" utterances...but unreal.

It has also became a cultural issue...with some churches going into a frantic act, that seemed to validate everyone who actually did so, while setting aside everyone who did not as nonspiritual, and probably unsaved. It is a shame, and I believe God is grieved at this glaring fleshy immaturity, passing among some as the epitome of Christian maturity.

I hope that this gift will be restored rightly in the coming New Bride Apostolic move..[ by God alone]..and I could see tongues and intepretations, along with the original miracle of those without language ability, hearing the Holy Spirit Himself speak of the Glories of Jesus, and believe.

Until then, I see it as essentially a secret gift, to assist in prayer, and to bring forth the utterances of Holy Mystery in times of need, in a personal way. Say, you are about to drown...and what do you do? It happened to me, and I immediately, and beyond me, cried out in tongues...and other things in emergency situations, or plain old bewildered situations, where there were no answers.

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."......................And my often Tongues as I suffer, am in warfare, or am just bewildered.

"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."..[ then tongues for me..]

"And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

He knows my deepest need, and then assists me in my prayers for me, and others.

 2012/3/8 14:06
carters
Member



Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138
Australia

 


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Mrs Carter

 2012/3/8 15:04Profile









 It begins and ends at the Throne of God. Stop the foolishness.

Thank-you Carters for your question about New Testament verification of this church warfare accompanied by screaming in tongues etc.

" I believe that spiritual warfare prayer is dangerous - that there is no evidence in the Bible to engage directly with the demonic realm apart from casting out a demon from a person.

I have seen and been a part of churches that do this and I believe that you open yourself to demonic attack by going into a spiritual realm that you have no authority to be in.
The evidence for this is in Jude 8-11."........Carters

I agree entirely. Most of this nonsense is so presumptuous it defies logic; it is downright crazy. When you do this, I believe, that you open a legal door for the demons above you to release an assault upon you. I believe that the brutal attacks on your church were probably , at least partly, brought on by this silliness.

Satan laughs at this false spiritual authority, and no matter how many times you scream "In the Name of Jesus"...he sits smiling in his chair until it is his turn, and yes, this , I believe is the gist of the admonition in Jude.

The Archangel would only speak in the Name of the Lord...not his own immense authority, and this scripture is about restraint....and submission to God, knowing God in the midst of real war. Satan is God's devil, and only he has the authority to sit him down, or stand him up.

All of our warfare must be waged from the Throne of God, with appeal to the ONE who is Limitless. David spoke of his enemies who were greater than he....and knew this: POWER BELONGS UNTO GOD!" Call ONE MILLION SATANS to the front lines, and a million times all of the wicked angels to boot, along with a million times the witches and sorcerers that serve death, and command them to assault the Lord.

To God Yahweh, they together are less than a drop in the bucket...less than one drop of water in a 55 gallon drum empty...take one grain of sand in all of the seashores of Earth...and that is the idea. God is Unlimited; Satan is finite.

War will always come to us. We must never seek it; it is wrong, and foolish to do so. It may make a self-righteous splash that might impress men, but unless it is initiated by God, with your faith engaged from His authority upon the Throne, it will end in vanity; foolishness.

It is this quackery that has turned so many away from the "Spirit filled Life", as disillusion must always set in after the hype draws down, the sore throats set in, and the emotionally drained get back to the real world.

I visited Israel in 1999 and made a personal tour of the Hebrew churches. One, I encountered in Jerusalem, was pretty neat I thought, with nice worship. Just before the service, however, a group of 5 or 6 sisters, wide eyed and excited, asked if I would join them in a "Devil Stomp". This is where you speak in tongues, while rebuking the devil, while grinding him into the dirt with your feet.

Kinda like an Irish jig square dance twist, I guess. I declined, but they got spiritual, and stomped on for 15 minutes? Oh yeah.

I have been in some real warfare...and it has always, every time, came to me. It has never been pleasant, but Jesus has never forsaken me either. I win when He rises in me, who is greater than he who lives in the world, and when I get His attention sitting upon His Throne of Glory, and acts on my behalf, out of compassion and mercy towards me.

The Lord gave me Amos 5: 8 and 9...in a vision, about warfare.

"Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

That strengtheneth the spoiled against the strong, so that the spoiled shall come against the fortress"

The Fortress is the evil armies; very organized and capable. The Waters are His limitless power from Heavens river of Life.

The Spoiled is destruction upon them, as we join our hearts with His and ask Him to intervene. Then the one and same destruction waters become Revival waters...and this is the process of the Apostle Paul....over and over...as He established the Kingdom of Jesus here on a hostile, demon controlled Earth. It is the same today....but must begin and end from the Throne of God.

The Psalms are filled with this knowledge, and right attitude.

PS: A woman Pastor is an oxymoron and may be another source of the confusion and consequent attacks your church is suffering. Not healthy.....considering the testimony of the aftermath. Seek God about that.




 2012/3/8 18:29
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re: It begins and ends at the Throne of God. Stop the foolishness.

Matthew 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Jesus put His own blood on the altar, where is the altar? In you.

Jesus defeated satan at the altar of the Cross. He first defeated him in the wilderness, just by the Word of God, satan left. He had to.

All we do when we go through all our doings to defeat satan by our retoric, is give satan glory for believeing that satan was not defeated and give him an opening of whom we are serving in this foolishness.

We can only be attacked by satan if God allows him to, then what can we do if it is for our good? All things are from God and we are more than overcomers, because God is behind it and it is for our good.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

There is none like us in the earth, except brothers and sisters in Him, New creatures, a new creation race of Gods sons.

Only God can allow demonic attack for the believer. The big question is why, not how do we in our petty doings try to get out of it. Paul ask three times and God said, "my grace is sufficent for you". Paul knew why also, to keep Paul from being puffed up, because of the surpassing knowledge of the Christ He preached. "Christ in you the hope of Glory". God will get the glory, no matter how hard we try to take it away from Him.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Thank God in all things, give Him the Glory, don't give the attacker the glory by believing he can do it of himself.

Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Did Job ever confront the devil?

Who came out on top? Blessings and riches and brethren and sons and daughters of Job, more than Job had before satan tried to get Job to curse God and die, even from Job's wife and friends, he would not do it. What a blessing.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Hebrews 12:28-29 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

Often the most severe punishment that God can bring upon men is to "lay upon them no other burden" than to leave them to the inevitable consequences of their own folly, or to the trouble and vexation incident to the effort to free themselves from what they had for a long time tolerated or practised. Let us accept our punishment and trouble with thanks giving. I know I am a son. Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till He send forth judgment unto victory. This has nothing to do with my salvation but sanctification.
1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Glorify God not satan.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/3/8 20:58Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re: carters

Hey I just wanted clarify when I put tongues a powerful weapon in spiritual warfare I DID NOT mean in that way.

What I mean was simply that
1. Tongues edifies and strengthens us for battle
2. When we pray in tongues we are literally petitioning the things of God before the throne to allow Him to answer as He pleases.

This two things in themselves makes tongues powerful.
I by no means mean speaking in tongues to "the devil"

In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/8 22:36Profile
carters
Member



Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138
Australia

 


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Mrs Carter

 2012/3/9 0:50Profile





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