Poster | Thread |
| Re: | | mguldner... that was beautiful. Much more articulate than me.
I am as articulate as a bull in a glass vase museum.
Krispy |
| 2012/3/8 8:23 | | mguldner Member
Joined: 2009/12/4 Posts: 1862 Kansas
| Re: | | lol thank you brother, This topic is one I am pretty passionate about because I grew up believing I was baptised in the Holy Spirit (Baptised by the Holy Spirit at the age of 7, or so deemed because I could mimic everyone else) But this was pressed on me at 7 I lived a rotten life and was a hellbound sinner but because I was "baptised in the Holy Spirit" I thought I was saved. I only came to Christ in 2009, I mean truly came to Christ. I asked the Lord about Speaking and Tongues and Evidence of Holy Spirit baptism, His answer was so simple it made me laugh a little bit. He said, "If I give you the gift of Speaking In Tongues, you are going to know it, it's not going to be the fake stuff you did the past 13 years." So now I am free from condemnation of not speaking in tongues because I know God has blessed me with different gifts.
Imagine a body made of only tongues, seems silly with that picture painted. _________________ Matthew Guldner
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| 2012/3/8 8:47 | Profile | rbanks Member
Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | I have never encouraged anyone to seek for tongues but only to be filled with the Spirit.
I must say that I would not be confident in Acts 2.4 if it had not of happened to me and I understand why other people feel the way they do because of the abuse.
I can tell you that I cant explain it or tell you why it happened when it did but I had been seriously praying to the Lord for around ten days not knowing how long at the time and one late night as I was kneeling in prayer the Holy Spirit came upon me and I began to do things before I realized it. I am telling you that I was moving under the power of the Spirit and speaking fluently in another language and realized it after it already started and heard myself speaking. I can understand why others have a hard time about this because I would be the same way if it had not of happened to me.
Speaking in tongues is not the only thing I did that night and was not the most important thing that happened. I cannot explain to you how I felt I mean it was the most awesome feeling I have ever experienced in my life. I felt the most love and power that didnt seem to diminish at all for a whole month. I have learned a lot through trails since then. I could tell you things that some would find hard to believe. It was through this experience, even though even now with some sadness of heart I must say that Im not walking in it like I was then, that I have come to realize that no matter how bad the days ahead get that if God were to fill you with His Spirit like he did those in the days of the apostles you will be able to endure anything because you will have so much power. I believe God carried away Phillip literally in the Spirit. God can protect you and cause you to endure things that would be impossible otherwise. I dont believe Stephen felt any lasting pain when he was being stone because He was so full of the Holy Spirit and seeing Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
All Im saying is this, we are not seeing and doing what those believers where seeing and doing the beginning days of the church. Somehow I believe God is going to have a people in these last days that will truly experience Acts all over again and He will confirm His Word with signs and wonders following before that great and dreadful day of the Lord.
Blessings to all!
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| 2012/3/8 8:50 | Profile | ZekeO Member
Joined: 2004/7/4 Posts: 1014 Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| Letting your fingers do the talking... | | Krispy wrote
"I talk with my hands a lot, it helps me verbalize, and I cant do that on here."
That did make me laugh, though you may be using using Dragon or something to type. _________________ Zeke Oosthuis
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| 2012/3/8 8:52 | Profile | MaryJane Member
Joined: 2006/7/31 Posts: 3057
| Re: | | I would like to apologize for my post of yesterday. I allowed some of the things posted to cause me to look at past hurts instead of keeping my eyes on JESUS. I did not mean to cause any strife with my post and I am sorry if I did. This topic is one that has haunted me for a very long time. I don't know really what to think, its very confusing. I have had some tell me to keep seeking and asking for GOD to give me this gift as a sign/proof and yet the still small voice I hear in my heart whispers that JESUS is all that I need and HE is enough for me. I should have avoided this thread when I read the subject topic but I allowed doubt to cause me to read it anyway...its my own fault so I just wanted to apologize. Thank you to those who responded to me with such kindness,
God bless mj |
| 2012/3/8 8:58 | Profile |
| Re: | | MJ, dont apologize! Your post helped to bring out some things and demonstrate to some the frustration that certain teachings can cause in true believers. I'm glad you posted and expressed what you did. It helps to hammer home some points there were being made.
You need to listen to the still small voice. The point was made that love is the most important aspect of the Spirit filled life, and we need to be concerned about demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace... etc). If those are our fruits then it is only because we have the Holy Spirit in our lives, because on our own we cant even attempt to live like that.
If you demonstrate the Fruits of the Spirit then you ARE a Spirit filled believer.
Any gift from God is important because it is from God. However in Paul's teaching on tongues he pointed out it's importance as a gift, but he de-emphasized it at the same time, and encouraged us to seek the greater gifts instead.
Did the conversation get a little heated? Yes. Not as heated as some want to make it out to be... but here is what I have figured out about "heat". Sometimes you need heat to get to the pure thing. Here's two examples:
Metals... they are heated in a crucible. I've seen this done first hand with aluminum. As it is in it's molten state the impurities rise to the top and on the surface it appears kinda mucky. It's called "dross". At that point the dross is skimmed off and thrown away... and you are then left with pure aluminum.
Chili... when chili goes into the crock pot it is really soupy, at least the way my wife makes it. You turn the heat up and let it simmer. Sometimes for 12 or 14 hours. This allows the seasoning to really permeate the ingredients, and the excess liquids evaporate. What you are left with is pure chili, nice and thick.
(I just made myself hungry...!)
Thats how conversations here go sometimes. Even tho it may get heated, sometimes it's necessary in order for the truth and the purity to boil down.
Thats what happened here. We ignored those who called for it to be shut down, we pressed thru... and it ended up beautiful thing.
And your post helped it, it didnt hinder it.
Krispy
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| 2012/3/8 9:57 | | rbanks Member
Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | Dear MJ,
Im definitely not an articulate writer and when writing I leave a lot out but in my heart I wouldnt want to see anyone discouraged. I have never liked some of the things I have seen through the years in some Pentecostal/charismatic churches.
If I could give you a little advice it would be to encourage yourself in the Lord and dont let others into your life that dont have love and compassion that you know have a true love and walk with God. Anything (gifts) that we have truly the Lord had to give it to us and was not given to make us more special than others but to be a blessing to others. I would also encourage you to walk in the Spirit with praise and thanksgiving to God for all Hes done in your life and all that He is and all that he has in store for those who love Him. He loves you and will finish the work He started in you- only keep your confidence in Him. Just think who knows what all God has for you and will do in you while you just love and desire Him for Himself. We should desire him above all the gifts and trust Him to do what He wants in our life. We are His and bought with a price so lets glorify Him.
With much Love
rbanks
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| 2012/3/8 10:46 | Profile | rbanks Member
Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | I mean truly came to Christ. I asked the Lord about Speaking and Tongues and Evidence of Holy Spirit baptism, His answer was so simple it made me laugh a little bit. He said, "If I give you the gift of Speaking In Tongues, you are going to know it, it's not going to be the fake stuff you did the past 13 years." So now I am free from condemnation of not speaking in tongues -quote mguldner
Brother I cant help but comment a little here from your post because this is a profound statement that I have also come to a conclusion that many have been led to say things so that they think they have received something they didnt really receive and others felt condemnation because they didnt fit in unless they spoke in tongues and we should never be forced to do anything.
I agree when God truly fills you to overflowing to operate in a gift from Him you will know something extraordinary has happened without a doubt. I have come to believe that God is sovereign and gives to whoever He wills and the price of surrender must also be a part of the processing work in us because He who works in us also works through us and all for His glory!
Blessings to all!
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| 2012/3/8 11:11 | Profile |
| Re: | | MJ, Don't apologize. Actually I am glad that you opened up to us. Pain like that should not be hidden in the heart like that. You know Sister, this thread could have been started by the Lord for this very purpose to get you to open up about this so that you can look at it and come to terms with and stop feeling the insecurities that people place on you as not being a child of God because you haven't spoken in tongues. God wanted you to come to grips with your salvation so that there is no doubt whatsoever. So when someone tells you that you don't have the holy Ghost because you don't speak in tongues, you can say, "I certainly do speak in tongues". (They don't have to know that your referring to English/Spanish/French). And if they ask for a demonstration, you can say, "it's against my conviction to put God on display." I always have fun with religious minded people, no wonder they can't stand to be around me. It shuts them up though! hehe
I was told that if I didn't speak in tongues I wasn't saved. Can you imagine, I wasn't even told that if I didn't speak in tongues I didn't have the holy Spirit, but I wasn't even told that, I was told I wasn't saved. Looking back on the confusion I wished that I just sought God to be filled and whatever God wanted to do with me after that was His business.
I left the United Pentecostal Church for one reason and one reason alone, they were offending people, offending believers who have embraced the cross but did not speak in tongues.
No one can go wrong if we seek His face. No one can go wrong if we seek to be filled. And how He fills each one is different. Each experience is different. When I read of Jimp's testimony, I just love it. God is so soveriegn in the way He does things.
For me, I was so indoctrinated by others that all I sought was tongues and I was being driven by fear. Before this I had no idea what all this was about. But because I had a besetting sin at the time and then someone told me that I wasn't saved because I didn't speak in tongues, I was being set up for fear. Of course I was going to cry, of course I was going to doubt my salvation. Before I loved walking with the Lord afterward it was like I was dragging my feet. Before I would jump for joy to be with Him, after I was hiding behind a tree like Adam because I thought God was mad at me because I didn't speak in tongues. ugh!
When I was filled with the Spirit and yes I did speak in tongues, but was it ever of no significance. I expected rolling thunder like the older saints speak and it was barely nothing. I was sorely disappointed. I was asked to testify the next day of my experience and I told them all that I wasn't filled with the Spirit. At this time I wasn't in the UPC denomination, this was a backwards church filled with halfwits, debt ridden, lefthanders and rejects that other churches didn't want and I loved it. So these people were so generous in their love for me that the Pastor took me aside and told me of his experience that was akin to mine and he encouraged me to just pray in whatever God had given me.
But just to let you know Mary Jane, I felt no different than when I first got saved. But the fear of not being saved was gone because I had found a group of people that I loved and they loved me and that worry left me and I was taken back to the time before I had this awful fear and resumed from there. But this time I was speaking in some sort of tongues. I remember sitting on the edge of my bed after that night and spoke in tongues and I thought, this sounded so foolish that this can't be it. By faith I went with the little bit I had received over time it developed as if growing up so to speak.
Let me stop here for a moment. I hope I am not discouraging you. I am merely sharing my experiencing with this and showing you that I had fears of not being saved because I was told a lie. God loves you and He has you right where you are at. He sees your fears, your worries, your pain and the like, and He said that He would never leave us nor forsake us. Time and time again you have prayed and seen the hand of God working on your behalf.
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
This is encouraging verse to me. Because God doesn't hear sinners (repenting ones yes). It tells me that God hears us because we are no longer sinners. Oh yes, we will sin, but sinning and a sin are two different positions. And thankfully we are not sinners, therefore God heareth us. Walk in the truth that you have been given today and God will add to you as you seek His face as He sees fit.
Praise Him! |
| 2012/3/8 11:35 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
I agree when God truly fills you to overflowing to operate in a gift from Him you will know something extraordinary has happened without a doubt.
I wished that this were true of me. All my life I believed the above statement but man oh man God had other plans. With me it was in small things. He'd give me one piece of Lego and say, "Okay start building". My answer, "with what? I have only one little piece."
I am standing there in doubt of what He had given me. I hadn't learnt at this stage that He just wanted me to lay it down so He could add another and another and so on. Adding meant waiting, adding meant God sending someone to speak to me, adding meant waiting and more waiting, adding meant field work and so on.
I wish that it could come "without a doubt". The Lord always reminds me with, "Do not despise the day of small things". Trust me, that is a hard thing coming from a mind that likes pomp and circumstance, fanfare, and roller coasters. |
| 2012/3/8 11:47 | |
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