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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Evidence of Genuine Belivers Speaking in Tongues before 1900? (HELP!)

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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 2229
East TN (for the time being)

 Re: krispy

Quote:
by KrispyKrittr on 2012/3/6 8:31:40

Lysa, I did not say God does not honor it. If you look at what you just wrote you will realize that we said the exact same thing.

This is what happens when people expect me to say one thing because of assumptions they've made about me, and then I dont say what they expect. What I really am saying gets completely by-passed.


Brother, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I mistyped and left out what I wanted to say:

Your original copied statement:
Quote:
God does not honor prayers offered in tongues anymore than He does the simple plea of a child or an adult who approaches Him as a little child.


I wrote wrongly:
First: I didn’t say that God honored tongues more than anyone else’s prayers, you assumed that

I should have written:
First: I didn’t say that God honored prayers offered in tongues more than anyone else’s prayers...

For that I apologize.

But, correct me if I'm wrong! but I think you replied to my statement of:
Quote:
When he has a need someday, offer to pray for him and allow him to experience your gift, the Lord might work mightily through that.


Am I right or wrongly going down the wrong path?!

(I know you probably won't see this, because I think we just posted something at the same time!!!) and I have to work a double tonight so you won't hear back from me after 3 pm today!

God bless you, brother
Lisa


_________________
"I was seized by the power of a great affection."
~ Brennan Mannings

Since He looked upon me, my heart is not my own. He hath run away to heaven with it. ~ Samuel Rutherford

 2012/3/6 12:30Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 2229
East TN (for the time being)

 Re: Krispy

Quote:
by KrispyKrittr
Obviously some of this I agree with you, sister Lisa... but some of it I do not. I am rock solid on what I believe scripture teaches concerning this topic... so while I appreciate you writing this all out for me, it was not necessary.


It was necessary because it wasn't just for you brother Krispy!!

It was for any and all who might have questions about that scripture. (edit: and another logical explanation)

:-) !! Back at cha, brother!


_________________
"I was seized by the power of a great affection."
~ Brennan Mannings

Since He looked upon me, my heart is not my own. He hath run away to heaven with it. ~ Samuel Rutherford

 2012/3/6 12:34Profile









 Re:

You are correct, I did reply to this:

Quote:
When he has a need someday, offer to pray for him and allow him to experience your gift, the Lord might work mightily through that.



Because I believe as scripture teaches; that not all will speak in tongues (i.e. it is not a gift God bestows on all, according to Corinth 12), the implication of what you are saying will lead someone who God has gifted with some other gift to think that you may be saying that God will not honor or work through their prayer because it's not done in tongues.

And my point was... a prayer spoken in a known tongue is just as honored, answered and effective as a prayer prayed in tongues.

Case in point: Billy Graham. Never spoke or prayed in tongues, and not one person on this forum has been used of God in such a mighty way. How does one explain that?

I explain it by saying that God gives the gifts as HE sees fit. And He will honor a prayer prayed in earnestness and love toward Him.... tongues or not.

I find it telling that whenever I bring up Billy Graham, or Spurgeon, or Billy Sunday no one has ever addressed that head on. Why? Because no one can. Some of the mightiest men of God never uttered a word in tongues, but spiritually they were heads and shoulders waaaay above any of us. The only explanation is that God gives the gifts as HE WILLS.

And I'll be totally honest with you, tongues is NOT a sign of someone being more spiritual... and tongues does NOT make a person spiritual. I've known many (not all) tongues speakers who live like dogs and are completely carnel. So much so that I wonder if they are even saved.

Krispy

 2012/3/6 12:48
docseth1
Member



Joined: 2008/5/17
Posts: 109
Valdosta, Ga

 Re: Evidence of Genuine Belivers Speaking in Tongues before 1900? (HELP!)

After The Apostles & Before 1900:

1. Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) wrote "The prophetical gift remains with us even to the present time" (Dialogue with Trypho, Volume 1.) In his work called "The Second Apology of Justin," he speaks of the ability of Christians in his day to cast out demons and administer healing.

2. Irenaeus (AD 125-200) In his "Against Heresies," Volume 1, he describes Christians as those who cast out devils, have visions, prophecy, lay hands on the sick, and raise the Dead. He also testified that believers were still speaking with tongues.

3. Tertullian (AD 160-240) In “A Treatise On The Soul,” Tertullian wrote, “For seeing that we acknowledge the spiritual charismata, or gifts, we too have merited the attainment of the prophetic gift.” In his “Against Marcion, Tertullian revealed his acquaintance with speaking with tongues, and viewed the gifts of the Spirit as a sign of Orthodoxy.

4. Origen (AD 185-284) In his work “Agains Celsus,” Origen spoke of miracles being performed. He defends speaking with tongues. He links praying in the Spirit with praying in tongues. Origen was the first early church father to express concern over a diminishing of spiritual gifts in the church. However, he saw this being a result of a lack of holiness and not the will of God.

5. The Monastic Movement (AD 300 - ) Anthnasius wrote about the life of Anthony (the father of Monasticism). He wrote of Anthony as being a man who was filled with the supernatural.

6 (The Middle Ages) A significant Jealousy arose between the church at Rome and the common people. Around AD 1000 the Roman church declared that speaking in tongues among the common people were to be considered evidence of demon possession. However, among the church hierarchy it could be considered evidence of sainthood.

7. The Waldenses (1176 – beyond the 16th century) This group sought to find the biblical pattern for a New Testament church. Divine healings as well as the gifts of the Spirit were part of their ministry

8. Martin Luther – Stanley Frodsham’s book entitled “With Signs Following” quotes a work in German by Souer who described Luther as one who spoke with tongues and was endowed with the gifts of the Spirit. It has also been shown that the Anabaptists of the 16th century had a great interest in the gifts of the Spirit as also did the Morovians.

9. The Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) This Pentecostal movement began in 1896. During a revival in Cherokee County, North Carolina. It is said that many spoke with tongues during this revival. This belief and practice continues today in this denomination.


_________________
The prophet or preacher that can cry out over the sins of the people, but never cry over the lost souls of those same people, does not have God’s heart.

 2012/3/6 13:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am rock solid on what I believe scripture teaches concerning this topic...

Oh dear. LOL. I am going to have a big smile for you brother when the day that this "rock" solid belief of yours becomes like water. Many men have said the same thing and fell into what you call 'error'.

Let me say further though. Just because you think it's truth doesn't mean it is truth. We have thousands of denominations worldwide that all claim that they have truth and they are "rock solid" in what they believe. And they too all say, "what I have written is scriptural". Those words carry very little significance. We've even hear people say, "I did a study on it". I guess that's suppose to mean that that their conclusions are final. Dear God help us!

 2012/3/6 13:35









 Re:


Well done Docseth!

 2012/3/6 13:40









 Re:

Quote:
Oh dear. LOL. I am going to have a big smile for you brother when the day that this "rock" solid belief of yours becomes like water. Many men have said the same thing and fell into what you call 'error'.

Let me say further though. Just because you think it's truth doesn't mean it is truth. We have thousands of denominations worldwide that all claim that they have truth and they are "rock solid" in what they believe. And they too all say, "what I have written is scriptural". Those words carry very little significance. We've even hear people say, "I did a study on it". I guess that's suppose to mean that that their conclusions are final. Dear God help us!



And if you knew anything about me or my history since becoming a Christian you would probably not say that to me.

Once again, get to know someone before you make assumptions.

The funny thing is that if someone wants to get to know me I can be an open book. Yet, when someone (like you) thinks they have me figured out... it is then that I become ellusive and coy. I dont want to let you know me, I'd rather enjoy watching you think you do. It's entertaining.

:-)

By the way, thats a very post-modern "nobody can really ever be sure of what to believe" statement that you made. Be careful lest you sound like the emergent church. Thats the sad thing with the church today... someone who is confident in what they believe is scorned and ridiculed not just by the lost world... but by Christians.

The funny and ironic things is... you are condident that I am wrong! lol ...you do see the hypocricy in that, right?

You do not even see the pride in the things you say to me, brother. You call me prideful? And you think I am blind?

Krispy

 2012/3/6 13:48
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1084


 Re:

Are you an advocate for the truth and really want genuine revival for the people of God? Then don’t try to explain away the written word of God because you haven’t experienced something that is clearly written in the Word of God.

Let’s be about contending for the faith once delivered unto the saints. Let’s study the words of the original apostles rather than the words of men who are hung up on some “ism” and yet can’t seem to believe what the original apostles have already written.

Acts 1:4-8 (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 2:4 (KJV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:14-21 (KJV)
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 2012/3/6 14:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Are you an advocate for the truth and really want genuine revival for the people of God? Then don’t try to explain away the written word of God because you haven’t experienced something that is clearly written in the Word of God.



Here we go again with the assumptions.

In almost 8,000 posts on here I challenge you to find ONE post where I have claimed to never spoken in tongues. Just one.

While you are at it... find ONE where I said tongues were not for today. Just one. Should be easy, right?

This is what I am talking about. People are responding to me thinking I believe something that I have NEVER ONCE said I believe.

You're playing the man, not the ball.

Krispy

PS: ...and I certainly did not say it today in this conversation.

 2012/3/6 14:18
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Thanks docseth1,

I am very grateful! If you have any references for the info whether in a book or online that would be helpful!


Lysa, its ok no worries =) thanks for your help as well!

In Christ
Evangel

 2012/3/6 14:19Profile





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