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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1710


 Re:

Quote:

Well, what if she is a 22 year old with 2 children, ages 1 and 2, who's husband was tragically killed in a car wreck four months ago.


My entire post was regarding non Widow single Mom, either Divorced or separated. Also I just mentioned 1 Timothy 5 on widows over 60 just to say that Paul considered even Widows only over 60 to be included in the list of Widows (I believe it is to give them a chance to marry again), definitely a young single Mom who is not a widow cannot be included either. May be I did not make it clear.

Quote:

Again, you stated, ""Divorce FOR ANY REASON is not a part of new Covenant life". There are clear scriptures, one from The Gospels and one from Paul's writing, that specifically detail 2 instances in which divorce is certainly allowed.



Jesus says in Matthew 19:8:-
Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman [g]commits adultery.

So first of all Divorce was permitted only because hardness of heart of men. In new Covenant life there is no place for hard heart. So now with hard heart if you want to divorce then you can only divorce in case of immorality. I also agree there are conditions to divorce but above everything the hard heart comes first.

The instances in which a women is abused by her husband is because this marriage is either not done under Christian values or because the Church is not talking on maintaining married relationship. If the Church does its Job then there will be a reduced cases of Divorce.

Again I am not saying that divorced or left alone single Mom should not be ministered. I never mentioned that, this is another kind of extreme.
But the Church helping them or supporting them by material things should be done carefully so that it may not result in encouraging people to live as single after marriage.


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/2/13 14:33Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1710


 Re:

Also I have to accept I do not have enough light on this subject. So I do not have the answer to all the questions and scenarios. I think it is better for me to keep quit. Neither am I leading a Church to make any important decision on this. I believe every men and women can be ministered by Church irrespective of their past life, because Bible says God desires everyone to be Saved. I am definitely not against any ministry.


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Sreeram

 2012/2/13 14:41Profile
gators52
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Joined: 2011/9/21
Posts: 63
Central Florida

 Re:

Sree, Unless one man has walked in the shoes of another it's probably best to not give him advice as to what "your take" is on certain scriptures. I'm not trying to be rude. Love covers a multitude of sins. Christ's love. A man's words can confound that same man's spiritual growth. Silence is golden.


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Brian

 2012/2/13 14:48Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 525
America's Heartand

 Re:

@ Sree

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I doubted that you actually meant things as I understood them. I am glad to see I was reading more into your post than you meant.

In the case of divorce because of adultery in Matthew 19:9

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

It seems clear that the situation is if a marriage partner commits adultery they are at that point dead to the one who remained faithful.

If they had been under the law they would have been stoned and killed.That would have allowed the living spouse to then remarry.

The "certificate of divorce" given by Moses was used under all kinds of frivilous reasons to get divorces. However, in the case of adultery no certificate was needed... they were executed by stoning for the offense. Clearly Jesus leaves this as the caveat for divorce being justified in the case of adultery by one of the persons.

Again, thanks for your clarifications.

Blessings!

 2012/2/13 14:49Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1710


 Re:

Quote:

It seems clear that the situation is if a marriage partner commits adultery they are at that point dead to the one who remained faithful.



I was of your opinion only until someone explained me this scripture. If you read from Matt 19:8, and continue into 19:9, you will understand what I am saying. Also if we take New Covenant definition of Adultery (lusting in eyes Matt 5:28), almost every marriage in this world can be divorced!!



_________________
Sreeram

 2012/2/13 15:00Profile









 Remember the song; LOVE CONQUERED ME!".....

"Also I have to accept I do not have enough light on this subject. So I do not have the answer to all the questions and scenarios. I think it is better for me to keep quit.

Neither am I leading a Church to make any important decision on this. I believe every men and women can be ministered by Church irrespective of their past life, because Bible says God desires everyone to be Saved. I am definitely not against any ministry. ".Sree

Thank-you Sree for your gracious reply, which proves to me that we are of the same spirit. All of us are looking for light, and overall, and I think the Church has failed to deal with this issue in a Godly way. I surely don't have the answers...but by faith, Two things;

1.] "Love covers a multitude of Sins"....

2.] And "Mercy overcomes judgment."...[ or condemnation ].

These things are acts of people, not ideas about solutions. Love and Mercy kiss in Agape Love, and when a person, or a local body of believers, touches this depth of Agape...then the single mom issue will be small potatoes. Solutions and ministry will then just happen.

I think that there are no formulas, because every situation is different, and must be addressed individually by the Holy Spirit, and His ministers, male or female.

Jackie Pullinger founded her mission for prostitutes in the forbidden City, in Hong Kong. Many of them had children..and succeeded in very brutal conditions to prove Jesus' grace for the single sinner, and single sinner mom.

We ought to also, but our success only lies in the arms of the Holy Spirit.

 2012/2/13 15:12
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 525
America's Heartand

 Re:

@ Sree,

Last comment from me on this for now. I don't want to totally hijack Brothertom's thread here. The issue we are discussing does have bearing on the topic but he is approaching this for a different reason. He is bringing much needed emphasis to the needs of single mother. I have great empathy for the single mother as I was a single dad. Raising my kids on my own while working full time jobs trying to hold life, hearth, home, and family together is a very difficult task. Anyone who has not had the burden of it will scarcely be able to understand the difficulty it entails in our culture. Because of that our church is moving toward offering many helps to the single parent wanting to have Godly influences in their children's lives. I will post some of those ideas when I return later today.

As far as your last thought,

YOU STATED: , If you read from Matt 19:8, and continue into 19:9, you will understand what I am saying. Also if we take New Covenant definition of Adultery (lusting in eyes Matt 5:28), almost every marriage in this world can be divorced!!

I RESPOND: Well...that WAS Matthew 19:9 I posted. I have studied it intensely for some 25 plus years. Here they both are;

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (If they are sexually immoral and adulterous you are justified in the divorcing of them. They are dead to you)

May I humbly suggest that you research out what Paul said on this topic. Adultery IS DIFFERENT than any other sin. I know that is hard for many to hear... however, consider this and go do some deeper looking.. I share with you these scriptures...think about them-

1 Corinthians 6:15-18
15 Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!
16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”
17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

@ Brothertom - sorry if we took the thread a bit off track. Great topic that needs much attention in todays world. Future posts by me on your thread will be to that end.

Blessings Sree and Brothertom

 2012/2/13 15:22Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

It’s interesting how quickly this issue turned towards moral legalities. It’s true, we wouldn’t want to overlook that. But in our dissecting of scripture on these matters, we would do well to look at the real people involved. That will point us to a higher law – which is OUR responsibility.

1) Chances are many single mothers have never known what real marriage is. They never had a two-parent family, let alone parents who stayed married. She may have no emotional capacity to keep a relationship. A single mother needs to see and experience healthy relationships – not just bible verses of rules which they can’t keep. A church can be a tremendous healing environment – through the expression of grace and mercy to one another.

2) She may have become pregnant out of foolishness, and naivety, through a fling with some immature adolescent male who has no capacity to actually be a father – or provide support. She may have three children each with a different father. (I know an example)

3) She may have various psychological issues– which hamper her ability to nurture her children. There may be all kinds of behavioral issues.

4) If she's been through the nightmare of divorce, she may be emotionally drained and broken. The children will be suffering enormously – and carrying scars.

5) She may have become a master at manipulating well-meaning people –like churches – and try to use them for all their worth, with no desire to take personal responsibility. (My former church experienced such a case)

Overall, single mothers and their children are among the most vulnerable members of our society.

We could go on and on, but that is enough to alert us to the tremendously complicated challenges single mothers may be facing IN ADDITION to the other challenges – like managing home and job, and loneliness. It’s a huge challenge for the church too.

A thought: Each single mother is both a victim of a fallen world in some way or other, but she is also an agent in her own choices. No one is simply one or the other. Still, the past is the past. And the role of the church is not dependent on whether she did something “sinful” or was merely a victim of circumstance. Remember, the prodigal son deliberately made immoral choices. But that did not deter the Father from expressing sheer mercy and compassion on his return.

A sobering thought: In the OT, Israel came under judgment for neglecting the vulnerable members of their society. Might it be that the way God’s people treat single mothers and their children is strongly suggestive of their true state of salvation? That is, the evidence of love?

It really is a sobering thought, isn’t it?

May God's people become equipped to minister to single-mothers, desiring to see them grow into maturity.


Diane


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Diane

 2012/2/13 19:27Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Another sobering through came to mind:

In view of the prevalence and convenience of abortion, any single mother who has her living children, no matter how she got pregnant, surely deserves to be respected at least on that count. Her children ought to be especially precious to the church.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/2/13 20:03Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 525
America's Heartand

 Re:

@ Roadsign-

DIANE YOU STATED:
In view of the prevalence and convenience of abortion, any single mother who has her living children, no matter how she got pregnant, surely deserves to be respected at least on that count. Her children ought to be especially precious to the church.

I RESPOND:
Thank you. Your post put such a "heart of the matter" and "people come first" reminder into the topic that it choked me up. I suppose it is because I have been in ministry for so many years and in my minds eye I am seeing the faces of those precious ladies we helped that had decided to keep their children when everyone had advised them to abort those children. Some of those children are grown now and marvelous witnesses for Jesus.

Thanks again Diane. It keeps us in the proper focus and frame of mind.

Blessings!

 2012/2/13 21:51Profile





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