| America Under God's Judgment and How God Tried to Warn Us on 9/11|
Is anyone here familiar with a study by a Messianic preacher named Jonathan Cahn of some very uncanny correspondences between Isaiah 9:10 and September 11th, 2001? I recently discovered it and found it irrefutable and important, something we should take seriously.
I already recognized that 9/11 was a warning judgment from God and that America is clearly under God's judgment in many ways, the economic crashes of recent years being a big one. Cahn has found all this reflected in Isaiah 9:10. I've seen some You Tube videos of his talks and interviews on this subject, which are easy enough to find at You Tube -- the one that says "full version" is the talk to listen to to get the whole picture, though it's a few years old and he's added more to his revelations since then -- here's the link:
There is also a series of interviews Jim Bakker did with him last month which is more up to date, though the interview wanders a lot and is a bit hard to listen to. However, they are selling a DVD that has a more recent talk he gave to a Messianic conference on it, that is probably the best thing to get. It probably won't get put on You Tube for free but maybe the DVD can be found for a decent price.
And I also finally got around to reading his book, titled "Harbinger." At first I was put off that he had written the book in novel form, with fictional characters going about revealing and discovering the meaning of 9/11 but it turns out it doesn't interfere as much as I was afraid it would and perhaps it even helped him to present the material in a paced way for easier digestion. Nevertheless, a very risky way to present a matter of scriptural truth.
I'll just sketch out the basics and if there's material for a thread here we can go from there.
Isaiah 9:10 occurs after God has brought a warning judgment against Israel in the form of a limited attack by Assyria. It's a statement of the attitude of the leaders:
"The bricks have fallen but we will rebuild with hewn stone; the sycamores have been cut down but we will plant cedars in their place."
The first correspondence between Israel and America is in the attitude. They are not recognizing God's hand in the attack, not recognizing it as God's judgment, but defiantly vowing to rebuild what has been destroyed, and replant the trees that were cut down.
This is the same attitude America had right after 9/11. Everybody was saying "God bless America" instead of recognizing that this was God's judgment and calling for repentance. The few who did recognize that were strongly criticized. A very few preachers knew it was judgment, but most were saying God wouldn't have done such a thing.
But not only America at large but America's leaders officially expressed this very attitude, and in two cases in the uncanny way of actually quoting Isaiah 9:10 in response to the attack on the WTC. Tom Daschle quoted it in his position as Senate Majority Leader the day after, as the nation's official response to the attack, thinking it was just a nice statement about rebuilding and not understanding that it is about God's judgment against the nation. Three years later John Edwards quoted the same passage with the same misunderstanding. Cahn sees this as official declaration of America's defiance of God as our response to 9/11 instead of the needed call to repentance, and therefore God is going to continue His judgment against the nation.
But there are some specifics in the verse that were uncannily literally manifested after 9/11. Some reporters described "bricks" in the wreckage, and eventually a 20 ton hewn stone quarried from the New York mountains was brought in to be the cornerstone of the proposed Freedom Tower intended to replace the WTC. The governor of New York echoed the sentiment of Isaiah 9:10 by affirming that "we will rebuild." No call to repentance there.
Another specific is that a sycamore tree in a churchyard at the corner of Ground Zero was felled by part of one of the falling towers. Apparently it protected the church from damage so it was celebrated by putting its roots on display and commissioning a sculptor to make a replica of those roots in bronze. That replica now stands beside the main part of this church, Trinity Wall Street Church (a thoroughly apostate church by the way), misunderstood as some kind of memorial to 9/11 and not recognized as a symbol of God's judgment.
Just as uncanny is that where the sycamore had stood they planted a conifer tree of the type of the cedar, also echoing the specifics of Isaiah 9:10.
How can such specific manifestations be anything but God saying Yes you do have Israel's defiant attitude -- these are symbols of it -- and Yes I will bring further judgment if you do not repent?
There's lots more uncanniness involved in this, and more details to what I've already said, but perhaps this is enough to start a thread if anyone is interested.
I've also done some blogging on this subject, here:
| 2012/2/10 23:26||Profile|
| Re: America Under God's Judgment and How God Tried to Warn Us on 9/11|
The "Hardening of the heart." I am in mourning for America, as I see the writing on the wall.
"But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them.
Thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified!"
"Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.
And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN."
This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
9-11 was the first installment, the beginning of wrath upon our pagan country. At first, their seemed to be some repentance, and church attendance sored, but it ended in a few months, and back to the American Dream.
Much, much more is coming, even to the annihilation of our armies and government, and war upon our own soil, that will kill millions and millions. Will we repent? I don't think so.
"And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
"Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."
This is America today, and 9-11 was the trumpet warning.
Isaiah 30:25...The day of the Lord related to "Towers falling".
"And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound."
| 2012/2/12 12:31|
| Re: It is not America|
First of all we have to stop this thinking about America being under judgement. America has long been under judgement in the Romans 1:18-32 since. Since the country abandoned God, God gave her up to depravity.
But we have to stop this carnal thinking that America is like Israel. Israel was a theocracy before God and God's chosen people. The United States had no such claim. And despite the pronouncements of people such of Peter Marshal, Jr. America was not a covenant nation as unto God.
Was America blessed in some way by God. Yes, in the sense that America became the sending nation for missions in the 20th century. Britain was the main sending nation for missions in the 19th century. But now the third world such as China, Africa, and Latin America are putting more workers into the harvest than America.
So what happened to Britain and America? How about the church? As the church in Britain and America turn away from Christ so God removes their candlestick from her midst. Revelation 2 and 3 speak of Christ's warning to 5 of the 7 churches.
So the question should be is the church in America under judgement? Yes. Does the church in America need to repent and come back to Christ? Yes. Does the church in Amrrica need reviving? Yes. But again it is not America but the church in America. We are citizens of the kingdom above. We are looking for a heavenly city. When God soeaks of a holy nation he is speaking of his church, not the United States of America..
So what was 9/11? I believe 9/11 was God's judgement against the American church. It is his judgement against the church for failing to evangelize the moslems. Brother Andrew has rightly observed that if we do not go to the moslems with the love of Jesus Christ, the moslems will come back to us in anger as terrorist. This is what happened tragically on 9/11. Now the moslems are evageluzing America. It is not about America, but the failure of the American church to take the gospel to the moslems.
Their is hope for the church in America. But that hope will be given to a remnant who follow the Lamb. They will be a small number who are powerful in the Spirit. They el be holy in Jesus. They will walk with the Savior. They will be revived. They will also be persecuted, imprisoned, and killed. And who willl betray this remnant. It will be the 501c3 church. The American version of the Cbineese Three Self Patriotic Movement Church.
The question we best ask ourselves is.....are we part of that remnant???????
Posted by Blaine Scogin
| 2012/2/12 13:52|
| Judgment and the Remnant.|
"First of all we have to stop this thinking about America being under judgement. America has long been under judgement in the Romans 1:18-32 since. Since the country abandoned God, God gave her up to depravity." Martyr
The word of the Lord I quoted was not to Israel; it was to Babylon..A purely pagan nation..and that she had not given glory to God, but defied Him. She was therefore judged.
I'm talking about actuary judgment, not symbolic. I am talking about 100 million dead Americans, two for one for every aborted child, Famine,and fire. I'm talking about the complete destruction of our American Armies, and I'm talking about the invasion, and total occupation of her from invading foreign forces.
We have not entered into judgment yet, and we do not fear that we will. We are eating, drinking, and partying our lives up and borrowing into abysmal debt to keep it going, while trusting in future prosperity...for we sit a Queen.
I really liked your word about the remnant, which was probably your main point, and I heartedly agree with you. Thanks..Tom
| 2012/2/12 14:07|
| Re: Judgment and the Remnant.|
Agree with the scriptures you quoted and their confirmation of info I have read. I do not dare post because it woukd scare three quarters of this forum. Let us say that the church, those of the remnant will come under persecution. Nay God enable us to be strong in these final days to accmplish kid purposes.
| 2012/2/12 16:32|
| Re: God's revelations through Jonathan Cahn|
I didn't intend this to be a general thread about America under judgment since I've also known 9/11 was judgment since it happened, and we've been under judgment for decades now and there are many reasons for this that we all know very well.
Let me try to be clearer. You really do have to become aware of what Jonathan Cahn discovered to understand this. There's nothing carnal about what he arrived at.
God Himself revealed to him these incredibly specific correspondences between Isaiah 9:10 and the September 11th attack on America.
This is clearly the hand of God and nothing man could make up, that's what makes it so remarkable.
It is SO uncanny that it gives me renewed hope for the first time in years that it might be possible to show people that there is a God who rules in the affairs of men. It seems to me that this is a gift from God Himself in His great mercy, such an irrefutable revelation that anyone who honestly thinks about it MUST acknowledge Him -- or be in such delusion that there is no hope in that case anyway.
It's given me hope that even my unsaved loved ones might have to come to acknowledge God through this. I got my hardened sister to think about it to the extent that she had to recognize that it is uncanny, although as of yet she hasn't come to repentance herself. My very busy daughter has given my description a quick read-through, says she gets what I mean about it but she doesn't have time yet to really study it. I know she will be looking for reasons to reject it and that's fine. She's a good researcher. I think if she does take the time she will have to recognize that this is not something any human beings could have made up.
But of course the first to repent must be us, the church. It's given me hope for the first time in years that the church MIGHT rise fully to our calling from God to be a witness to this world by repenting in such numbers that God would bring a great revival. There are many pastors around the nation for instance who are guilty of not recognizing 9/11 as God's judgment, and Cahn's study could open their eyes and bring them to repentance -- which could bring the Spirit of God into the churches in great power. If a spirit of repentance came to the churches across the nation for ALL our sins (If My people will humble themselves and seek My face and turn from THEIR wicked ways...) glory could come to this nation and this earth beyond our deepest desires.
COULD. But may not. But COULD. God COULD do this. If He's willing to give us such a clear revelation of His reality as these "harbingers" he gave to Jonathan Cahn it seems He must be wanting to visit us with such mercy.
I've been praying for revival for years but not had much hope it is likely to happen. So I've prepared myself as well as I can emotionally and spiritually for judgment. Both who have posted on this thread echo the reasons why revival seems unlikely -- this nation is so far gone sometimes all we can think is that God MUST destroy it.
But maybe not yet. God COULD still come in mercy and power. At least my hope has grown since becoming aware of this study by Jonathan Cahn.
Of course we may still have the horrific judgment we've been expecting. We ARE in the end times and we know worse is coming. The nation has EARNED judgment as you are pointing out, and God doesn't ignore those things. But He MIGHT still grant us a temporary and wonderful and far-reaching reprieve that purifies and strengthens His people and brings many into His body.
This is truly a revelation from God Himself. I hope those who post to this thread will think about what he revealed and post on that rather than on our general understanding about God's judgment.
| 2012/2/12 18:28||Profile|
| Re: Please give some thought to God's revelations through Jonathan Cahn|
Of course there is no use having a thread if it's only me posting on it but this seems to me to be such an important topic I'd like to try to stimulate some interest in it again if I can.
From about the halfway point down in my first post I try to describe the uncanny correspondences between Isaiah 9/10 and September 11, 2001. I hoped even that little bit would get the point across and whet appetites to learn more. There's a lot more than that in the whole "Harbinger" revelation. Jonathan Cahn presents it all in great detail and gets it across much better, but just the little I've said I would think would show that these "harbingers" were indeed sent by God and not anything that men could do, and that they amount to a message to God's people in America, and that therefore we need to respond to it. Anything sent by God ought to be of prime interest to us. It's both a warning of judgment continuing to come, and an offering of mercy if the churches repent.
Just the little I've given ought to be enough to show you that something beyond the ordinary "coincidence" is going on here.
But there's much much more than that.
Won't you take the time to reread the first post and give it some serious thought?
| 2012/2/12 23:43||Profile|
| Re: CJeanne|
Sister, in all honesty, your thread is not contraversial enough. If you want people to respond to a thread pick o hot button topic. You know like the head covering or KJV issues. That really stirs the forum up. Though I be somewhat cynical it is true. More posters, including myself, are drawn toward contraversy than truth. Jesus deliver me from that.
OK. What was 9/11? Judgement from God? Yes. Did the church get it? No. I have shared in my earlier post that 9/11 may have been God's indictment against the church for failing to go to the Moslems with the love of Jesus. To win them to Christ. Now that judgement continues with the moslems coming to America to turn this country into a caliphate. This is already happening in Britain and other parts of Europe. Right now there are mire Moslems in England than Methodist.
I agree the church needs to wake up and see what is happening. Judgement is not only occurring in America but on the whole planet. With the increase in earthquakes, the uncertainty in the ecomomic system, the increase in wars and romors of wars, and so forth. God is giving notice that Jesus is coming. And be is coming soon. Mat.24, Mk.13, and Lk.21 teach this. Jesus said he was coming. But sister this forum does not want to hear this truth. Much easier to debate head coverings.
The church needs to wake up. But who will be awake. Will it be the 501c3 church. No she will be snoozing when the alarm goes off and hit the snooze button and sleep again. But the faith remnant bride wl be awake to be the light of Christ.
| 2012/2/13 8:36|
| Re: Our response to Gid's warnings|
We cannot change the outcome of the signs of his coming. But we can prepare for that glorious day when Jesus will return. We can seek a closer walk with him through extended prayer and being in the word. Not just the book but Jesus as the Word. We can also speak to others about Jesus. I mean don't we want to take as many souls souls with us in the rapture. It makes no difference what your rature view is. The idea is to take souls for Jesus.
What I am saying is let's advance his kingdom. His kingdom is advanced one heart at a time coming to Christ. This is why God is slow in coming. For be does not want any to perish but for all to come to repentence. For surely this is far more satifsyng than theological debate.
| 2012/2/13 8:54|
| Re: How this revelation HELPS us advance His kingdom|
Hi Brother Blaine,
I pretty much agree with everything you said, but what I'm hoping is that this particular revelation given by God to Rabbi/Preacher Jonathan Cahn would become known to everybody. I hope it might be recognized as such a direct and irrefutable message by God to His American church that it would motivate us to more fervent seeking of Him in fasting and prayer and repentance.
But also it's such an amazing uncanny proof of God's existence and the reality of His word that I hope it would also be recognized by UNbelievers as so uncanny that they have to acknowledge God. We don't usually have such a direct message from God and I think it's an opportunity we can't afford to miss.
| 2012/2/13 10:34||Profile|