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 Does Repentance Come After Conversion?

[b]Does Repentance Come After Conversion???[/b]

It seems to be a popular believe that repentance does not need to take place before conversion. Recently someone said in a forum that their pastor even said "repentance comes later".
[b]
Is this true or is this a lie???[/b]


Christ reveals to men the fork in the road at the time of conversion. One road is the road of sin which leads to death, the other road is the road of repentance leading to salvation. It is impossible to travel on both roads at the same time. You either walk with Christ in newness of life or you walk in the age old sins. It cannot be both.

How can a man live two lives? The only men who live two lives are con-artists. Con-artists fake one life while the other is their real life. Those professing Christians attempting to live two lives are also con-artists. They would have to be sinners pretending their conversion because a truly converted man would not pretend to be a sinner.

So does repentance come after conversion? That would mean salvation leads to repentance. Is this biblical? What does the bible say? The bible says the exact opposite! 2 Co 7:10 - "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation"
[i]
So [b]the bible[/b] says repentance leads to salvation and not salvation leading to repentance.[/i]

 2005/1/24 16:06
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Does Repentance Come After Conversion?

Hi Bro. Jesse,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;.

The teaching that repentance is not necessary for salvation is a false gospel. The evidence is in the absence of the Holy Spirit in the life of the so called 'converted.' Christ came to save us from our sin and not in our sins. Men are not saved from hell until they are first saved from sin. Here are some good quotes from Finney;

The Bible teaches that sin is forgiven when it is repented of, but never while it is persisted in. The Bible teaches that the grace of God can save us from sin -- from the commission of sin, or can pardon when we repent and put away sin; but it never teaches that sin can be forgiven while it is persisted in.


The impression of many seems to be, that grace will pardon what it cannot prevent; in other words, that if the grace of the gospel fails to save people from the commission of sin in this life, it will nevertheless pardon them and save them in sin, if it cannot save from sin.

Now, really, I understand the gospel as teaching that men are saved from sin first, and, as a consequence, from hell; and not that they are saved from hell while they are not saved from sin. Christ sanctifies when he saves. And this is the very first element or idea of salvation, saving from sin. "Thou shalt call his name Jesus," said the angel, "for he shall save his people from their sins." "Having raised up his Son Jesus," said the apostle, "he hath sent him to bless you in turning every one of you from his iniquities."

Let no one expect to be saved from hell, unless the grace of the gospel saves him first from sin.


God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/1/24 16:29Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2735
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Does Repentance Come After Conversion?

It saddens me that we even have to argue points like this within the Church. The call to preach repentance along with forgiveness of sins is all over the New Testament; John, Jesus, and the Apostles all did it, so should we;

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.(Luke 24:45-47)

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/1/24 16:32Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

1. Repentance as an event takes place before regeneration.
[b]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJV)[/b]

2. Repentance as a disposition takes place after regeneration.
[b]I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. [u]Then[/u] shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (Eze 36:29-31 KJV)[/b]

It may be that the friend's pastor is of 'reformed persuasion'. Calvinists generally believe that everything begins with regeneration, and that a person cannot repent [u]until[/u] they are born again. I DO NOT believe this but it may well account for the some of the confusion?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/1/24 17:26Profile









 Re:

It has been my experience that repentance for me has been a process. I think it just means turning from sin and seeeking after God but there can be more to come after that initial turning. It started with a turning from my old life, perhaps at the beginning for entirely selfish motives and not even what I would necessarily call Godly sorrow in the beginning but gradually as I have sought after the Lord, He has brought me closer and closer to Him and with that I have found deeper repentance and what I would descibe as repentance more now for the fact that I would grieve my Lord rather than because I am in a mess and need to get free and the thought now of being alienated from Him is awful. I don't belive in salvation before repentance at all and believe that we must repent in order to be saved but I do believe that deeper repentance can follow as He is gentle and reveals things to us when we can handle them.

 2005/1/24 18:01
NSCalvinist
Member



Joined: 2009/11/9
Posts: 18


 Re:

Quote:
The teaching that repentance is not necessary for salvation is a false gospel. The evidence is in the absence of the Holy Spirit in the life of the so called 'converted.' Christ came to save us from our sin and not in our sins. Men are not saved from hell until they are first saved from sin. Here are some good quotes from Finney;

The Bible teaches that sin is forgiven when it is repented of, but never while it is persisted in. The Bible teaches that the grace of God can save us from sin -- from the commission of sin, or can pardon when we repent and put away sin; but it never teaches that sin can be forgiven while it is persisted in.


The impression of many seems to be, that grace will pardon what it cannot prevent; in other words, that if the grace of the gospel fails to save people from the commission of sin in this life, it will nevertheless pardon them and save them in sin, if it cannot save from sin.

Now, really, I understand the gospel as teaching that men are saved from sin first, and, as a consequence, from hell; and not that they are saved from hell while they are not saved from sin. Christ sanctifies when he saves. And this is the very first element or idea of salvation, saving from sin. "Thou shalt call his name Jesus," said the angel, "for he shall save his people from their sins." "Having raised up his Son Jesus," said the apostle, "he hath sent him to bless you in turning every one of you from his iniquities."

Let no one expect to be saved from hell, unless the grace of the gospel saves him first from sin.



WELL SAID!

 2009/11/17 11:44Profile
bible4life
Member



Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

Well i will say that you can't do nothing unless the spirit moves first in you to bring repentance, so we don't want to make repentance a work of the human flesh. What i think is taught by the sprouls and washers is that when we do repent that we first must born from above born again, as john ch. 3 speaks about because the man in his unregenerated state will not repent and will not want the God of Bible and want righteousness. God must regenerate their heart and it brings forth repentance and saving faith. A person who has not regenerated and born again of Gods spirit our we saying in their flesh and in their will our coming to repentance. You have take the whole counsel of scripture and everything the scripture teaches. No man can see the kingdom of God before he has been born again. My friend was telling me before his conversion how he tried and tried to believe and repent and the Lord still did nothing but then one day the holy spirit brought forth true repntance and true faith, my friend tells me he believes that he was saved before the repentance but that the holy spirit brought forth it afterwards. Hey you might disagree mightily about this, but their many testimonies i believe even charles spurgeon who just could not believe and then one day they were born again of the spirit and they believed and i don't know all of charles spurgeons testimony but i remember something like that. Their our many people like sproul and what you call calvinists but i call biblical christians who believe that regeneration happens first and its happened in their own lives, can we believe in our own flesh and repent in our sinful flesh?
I say this in kindness.


_________________
John Beechy

 2009/11/17 13:37Profile
NSCalvinist
Member



Joined: 2009/11/9
Posts: 18


 Re:

A sinner has all the constititional faculties that he needs to repent of his sins. A sinner is capable of repenting of his sins, which is why God commands him to and blames him if he doesn't. Jesus rebuked sinners for not repenting, which implies that they were capable of doing so.

With the ability to repent, sinners are still unwilling to repent. Their problem is not constitutional but moral. Therefore they need the Holy Spirit to influence them to do so. The Spirit takes the truth of Jesus Christ, who vicariously died as our substitute, and presents it to their mind. This truth influences them to repent, so that they are born again by the Word of God. Regeneration is through revelation.

Regeneration is not a constitutional change, since sinners already have the ability to obey God and are therefore without excuse. Men are given the ability to obey God at creation.

Regeneration is a moral change, when the Spirit of God brings a man to the point where he choices to repent of his sins, because of the influence of the Gospel on his heart and mind. At conversion the Spirit makes us willing to do what God at creation made us capable of doing.

The Bible says that whoever is born of God does not commit sin and whoever does righteousness is born of God. This shows how being born again, or regenerated, is not a constitutional change but a moral change. A person is born again when they decide to repent and believe, under the influence of the Holy Spirit. We do not repent and believe after we are born again or regenerated. We are born again or regenerated when we repent and believe.

Repentance is not something that God can do for us. Repentance is our own choice. That is why Jesus rebuked the cities who didn't repent. It wasn't God's fault that they were impenitent. They could have chosen to repent but refused to do so, thus the rebuke. But while repentance is our own choice, which God cannot do for us, it is God who influences us to repent. Through instruction God grants us repentance. We never would have repented on our own. It is only because of the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives that we have chosen to repent of our sins.

 2009/11/17 13:50Profile
Axe1338
Member



Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re:

The definition of Biblical repentance means a change of mind that results in a change of action. That change of mind can ONLY be granted by God (Acts 11:18). That change can only occur when a person is regenerate, so God changes the unregenerate mind and gives man the ability to turn from sin. Repentance is a gift from God as is the obedience of faith. Hope this helps. God bless.

 2009/11/17 14:58Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re: Does Repentance Come After Conversion?

I think that it is significant that "Repent..." is the first recorded word preached by John the Baptist and Jesus in the New Testament. It is a call to action, so even though God needs to grant us the capacity to repent, it still requires us to use our free will in a conscious response.

PassingThru



 2009/11/17 17:33Profile





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