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sonofthunder
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Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 leaders equiping leaders conferences

This is common in evangelical circles today.. Leaders equiping people to be our next generation of leaders. Whilst this seems like a very good thing. Seems honourable and noble. leaders making other leaders and leaders making current leaders stronger ...better equiped.

Consider how this continues to turnover and churn out more leaders. So the cycle continues. Its got to be the way to go - leaders making other leaders continously stronger...

Ive never thought much on it....until more recently.

Is this really healthy for - the entire body though?

My bible paints a different version though...

Ephesians four has five particuliar ministries for the enabling of the saints (plural) saints (general)

For the building up - of the (entire) body of christ.

Not leaders with a focus on equiping other leaders

But with a focus on perfecting and maturing all saints.

Ephesians four doesnt seem exclusionary to me - but rather very inclusionary of a whole body being mature, built up, edified, strong, being mature and grown up - impacting all and sundry for their ministry (plural) and (general) no exceptions...

Indeed no exceptions, make everyone stronger and equipped for there calling, gifts, functioning, and ministiries.

We dont want a minority equiped, but a full majority functioning.

Would we really be healthy otherwise? Or somewhat lopsided.

The strong become stronger. What happens to the weak though?

Seems like to me the apostle wanted to pull everyone up to his level.

Not to belabour the point or beat this thing to death, but if you read pauls epistles he often references "the whole body" with every joint suppying, every part is supposed to make increase of the body. Contribute and have an impact. Wasnt it moses that said "would god all men prophesied"??

Some will dispute this i know saying some are leaders and the rest follow argument.

But give consideration to a majority becoming strong in the lord - for his work and service - and the full effect in terms of revival. Mmm.
Just a few thoughts

In christ, stephen


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Bro Stephen

 2012/1/29 18:16Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: leaders equiping leaders conferences

The flesh of men demands leaders to follow, hierarchies to nurture and grow. Pretty soon you have the Catholic church, just put your money in the basket. I agree that the model Paul presents in Ephesians is so much better, but it relies on God making the appointments, and genuine spiritual power the qualifier.

We don't have the time or the stomach for that...

"Unto a perfect man," (singular!) That's a fun one to chew on!


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Tom Cameron

 2012/1/29 18:34Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

Interesting reply, the mind boggles thinking in many different directions. yes the church of rome survived and floutished by making the top end strong and stronger yet. Net result equals a suppressed flock at the mercy of a top-to-bottom powerful hierarchy structure. let the weak say there weak, and the strong say there sttong. More power to you.


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Bro Stephen

 2012/1/29 18:57Profile
learjet
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Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re: leaders equiping leaders conferences

Hi Stephen,

I stumbled into your post and after having a read I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. -Ephesians 4:11-13



Interestingly this leads me to where Paul says "Follow me as I follow Christ". Was he saying 'you need to follow me because I'm the leader of this thing'? God forbid. I believe what he is saying is follow the example that I am setting for you, pattern your life after my life as I pattern my life after Christ's, and when you reach the end of the race all will be well with you.

The focus on 'leaders' is distressing to me because we've tried that model every single way possible and it's led to abject failure. We can no longer focus on 1 person fulfilling God's plan for their lives, we need to focus on every person being equipped and sent into battle.

To me the height of arrogance is to take an audit of where we are at compared to the early church and then keep going down the same road that got us here. All the while believing that we have better intentions, more sophisticated programs (that are basically retreads ie: tried and failed versions of the older ones), and more clever speeches 'we're more sincere'.

If this has shown us anything it should make crystal clear our need for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Our arguments, debates, evangelism from the head, screen plays, movies, big events, and every other plan of man has utterly failed miserably. One thing that gives me great encouragement is people are getting sick of it, they want the genuine and nothing else will do.

I sincerely believe that we will be a the generation that witnesses the bride making herself ready and I'm looking forward to it immensely.

Thanks for the post!

 2012/1/29 20:19Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: leaders equiping leaders conferences

I see the tenor of what you are saying and I understand where you are coming from. It is God's desire that God ordained leadership in the body equip, train, and bring maturity to the body so that every joint may supply.

However, there is a Biblical concept of leadership and not all will be called to that ministry. ALL are called to be vital parts of the body supplying liberally from the anointing that is upon them. ALL are important and one is not more significant than another. But all are not called to serve the rest of the body as leaders.

For example, Paul ordained elders to oversee the works he established. God called apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers to serve the body as servant leaders who equip the body for ministry. Often these people need specific training in proper Biblical leadership. In this sense I think meetings of leaders for the purpose of specifically ministering to this group of people is necessary and one might even argue vital.

Now, the clergy / laity system or the "I am the leader / you are the follower" paradigm is not Biblical. But, the "follow me as I follow Christ" paradigm is Biblical. Leaders serve the body and equip her for effectual ministry.


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Travis

 2012/1/31 7:43Profile





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