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MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 learned something

greetings

Something I noticed recently, I was reading another thread and someone said, "If you are a christian," and then went on to give their thoughts/opinions on the topic/verse. I found that interesting because by prefacing a post that way it could be taken to imply that who ever comes along and does "not" agree with what we just wrote or stated in our opinion then they must not be a christian, because clearly if they were a true christian they would see things exactly as we do...Interesting how that comes across. I know that I probably have written or said those words or something like that myself but until now never really thought about how it might sound to another. I learned something tonight,

"Father please help me to truly know and understand that I will one day give an account for the words I speak/type and not to take that lightly." Amen.

God Bless
mary

 2012/1/26 22:53Profile









 Re: learned something


I learned something too, Sis. That I've learned more from you within this last year than you'll know this side of Heaven.

Yes, "contending for someone else's idea of the faith" already shut down another forum out there this year.

Your post is right-on and I too am praying your prayer.
I want to be 'ever growing' and never stay where I am from day to day and I know I won't keep growing unless I strive toward His Love increasing in me daily as well.

Thank you for putting into words what I couldn't.

Thank you again, Mary.

Ann


 2012/1/26 23:48
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

That's why I posted this quote one time a few weeks ago MaryJane. I believe you are saying close to the same thing.

"We must stop using the Bible as though it were a potpourri of inerrant proof-texts by which we can bring people into bondage to our religious traditions. (For in practice the only inerrancy we ever defend is the inerrancy of our religious traditions and our way of reading the Bible.) We must no longer use the Bible as the Pharisees used the Torah when they gave it absolute and final status. Christian biblicism is no different from Jewish legalism. It is the old way of the letter, not the new way of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6)." (Brinsmead, Robert D. "A Freedom from Biblicism" in The Christian Verdict, Essay 14, 1984. Fallbrook: Verdict Publications. Pg. 14).

Pilgrim

 2012/1/27 1:41Profile









 Re:

But - I'll always be a Mystic-Biblicist :) - of a truth.

http://www.bibleviews.com/savior-scripture.html

Our sister's post means a lot, where she said that, we say another is not a Christian based upon what we feel are essentials - but we can find that those essentials have been debated between scholars for thousands of yrs. Plus, I've seen very little "changing of minds" by debates and I reckon that's why I appreciated Mary's post as well.
Every topic that comes up, has been covered here before and a number of times over almost 10 yrs and no one changes their minds - yet we restart the same old debates that we'll never agree upon completely.
What good does it do? Just brings divisions. Hinders love & unity.
Someone mis-defined "heretic" yesterday. That term comes from the root word for "heresy" and merely means "the opinion chosen" - as in our own free-will choosing what we want to believe. But I've found that when we pray for one another, that something happens - much more than the debates produce.

When the same topics come up over & over again and the same folks stick to their original beliefs - what has anyone gained for Christianity in the view of an on-looking world as well?

I love when we can agree where we all can agree and if we disagree, we can do it in love but with Titus 3:10 in mind.

There's nothing wrong with Biblicism and we shouldn't redefine that - but we need to know that we've crossed the line when we gone against the very Bible that we think to defend - the prime example being Titus 3:10 and other commands to love in a selfless way.

Too many titles for what people believe.

We have no head-honchos here - only a pack of equals expressing what's in our hearts together - that we'll also talk about for a few seconds together in eternity together, when we know much more than we do now.

Maybe keeping our eyes on Seeing Him together and for all of Eternity [and looking forward to that by prayer] could change our views of having to continuously express our views now and later regret it and admit our ignorance when we shall become like Him at His appearing.

Just lots to think about, when Seeing Him and each other One Fine Day is kept in the forefront of our minds.

Whatdayou think?

An opening post can have different purposes. Some want to teach us all - others to just start a debate - others to accuse and many others to exhort or lift up our LORD.
Maybe it all falls on the motives of the ones that start the threads.

What does the opening post point to? Self? Him alone? Building up The Saints? Contentions? Controversies. etc.

Seems the OP sets the stage for what will happen next, by the reason and motive for why it was posted. There's so many reasons for those OPs.

GOD help us to aim for His Best and His Glory Alone, which I think is to show the world we are Christians by our love.
Appreciate Mary's prayer!

GOD Bless!


 2012/1/27 3:07
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

yea i agree with you jesus is god

thats probably why i try to avoid posting in most of the the threads

and i think i would much rather hold the bible in eseam ,,,and call it infalable ,,rather then my opinion or interpretation which can be wrong ,and has changed over the years


pilgrim posting a quote like you just did to discredit the bible ,doesnt in any way shape of form give the quote any more athority ,then some ones opinion on scripture ,,,,but lessens it realy

i might be able to call that quotalisim ,incontrass to bibicalisim

and that quote may be used legalistly to draw someone away from scripture ,into denil of the gospel which is contained in scripture


with all rescect this is a great contradiction in behavour,and is a clear form of double standards

listen to what i say or what i quote becasue im right ,and your interpretation of the bible is pharasacial


do you see what im saying brother

 2012/1/27 4:15Profile
timg
Member



Joined: 2008/8/23
Posts: 100


 Re:

I for one have learned and have been very blessed by the various opinions and testimonies of the posts. It is our responsibility to test everything by the word of God and His Spirit that lives within us.
I am confident that the father of lies, that old dragon, would love nothing more that to spread false doctrine or discension among the body of Christ. It is imperative however, that we seek the truth of Gods word and live it.

May we all do all things for the glory of Him who sits on the throne.
tim

 2012/1/27 5:51Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
We must stop using the Bible as though it were a potpourri of inerrant proof-texts by which we can bring people into bondage to our religious traditions. (For in practice the only inerrancy we ever defend is the inerrancy of our religious traditions and our way of reading the Bible.) We must no longer use the Bible as the Pharisees used the Torah when they gave it absolute and final status.



Pilgrim: I just had a conversation with my wife the other day in which I said, "I have noticed that we have a tendency to predetermine our doctrinal stance. Then, in order to prove our pretext we search the scriptures for a proof text and always wind up out of context." I think I understand what you mean by your final sentence in the quote above, but the Bible is the absolute and final authority. However my own doctrinal slant is not the absolute and final authority. There are those things we know for sure and can authoritatively stand behind. Virgin birth, death and resurrection, righteousness by faith, etc. Then there are those things where we have a good idea but cannot be totally dogmatic. Eschatology, etc. But in all of these things we must recognize that we are human and prone to error no matter how sincere our view may be. We must be open to allow God to continually rearrange our ideas as we come to a deeper knowledge of His word through prayerful study. Study to show thyself approved that you may be a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

MaryJane: I agree. We cannot be lifted up in pride or have an elitist attitude toward the body because they do not share our interpretation. This is dangerous spiritual territory. This is why I think a forum like SI has a very good role to play in this area. We can discuss scripture and challenge one another. If each of us in turn will prayerfully go to scripture and seek God, the Holy Spirit can and will reveal truth to us and I believe, though some might call it a pipe dream, that God will bring the body into unity of doctrine to a degree that we have not known before.


_________________
Travis

 2012/1/27 9:09Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Very well said, Twayneb.

However, (and this is just my view) I don't think you will ever get the "unity of doctrine" amongst Believers, but what is important is the "unity of the Spirit". You won't have the unity of the Spirit of God if the Lord is grieved about something. And the Spirit of God working through a loving Body of Believers knows how to make adjustments in our lives.

I think one reason why there is always so much strife, is because some people are looking for "unity of doctrine" and always pushing their view of it rather than the "unity of the Spirit". Some will no doubt argue that they are the same, but I don't think so. We refuse and prevent a man to think for himself when he is forced or coerced to believe what everyone else believes by being disfellowshipped in subtle ways.

I am with you that there are essential doctrines, but beyond this, Paul explains in Romans 14 there is liberty.

Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Let's face it, if someone has the Son, the Bible says they have Life and who are we to reject them? Paul had the heart and mind of Christ because he continued to work with stubborn, thickheaded people who had wrong doctrine. He had a lot of patience and love with God's children. Not much patience for the Judaizers, but Jesus called a spade a spade with the Pharisees, too. The problem is that we look at each other as Pharisees and not children of God. Paul did not do that. Jesus did not do that.

God is able to make us stand.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Here we are in 2012 looking back on centuries of men and women who loved God and who we think we would offer the right hand of fellowship to. Yet, we also see from our vantage point various things we don't agree with, yet we stand convinced they loved God and gave their life for Him.

If we only had that kind of graciousness (grace) towards one another, today that we so willingly extend to dead people.

I meet weekly with people that "endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" and it is very refreshing. We aren't checking each other's doctrine. I see from their life, from their struggles to walk with Jesus that they are holding fast to Him and they love Him and they love the brethren. Are they perfect? No! Am I? No way?

God will bring us all understanding in His time if we don't wipe ourselves out first. If we would endeavor to keep the "unity of the Spirit", I think it would be amazing at how much understanding God would bring to us. Children grow better in an environment of love. Our job is to walk in mercy, love, forgiveness and that will create an environment that the Holy Spirit can operate in. But the Holy Spirit cannot operate in an environment of strife and men trying to control and manipulate each other.

You know what doctrine is important to an immature church that is always fighting? The doctrine of Christ. Getting to know Christ will bring everything into order. The doctrine of Christ is the doctrine of godliness. That right there will bring much into order today which is out of whack.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

So, it seems pretty important that we find out what this "doctrine of Christ" is.

Blessings to you, my brother.

Pilgrim

There are a lot of people that "know" doctrine but don't know Jesus Christ.



 2012/1/27 10:12Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Pilgrim: point well taken. Doctrinal unity is virtually impossible without spiritual unity. This also does not mean that we will all agree about every minute detail. However I do believe that in major topics over which we have sometimes squabbled (The Holy Spirit, relevance of gifts today, sovereignty, etc.) there will come a greater and greater degree of agreement as we with pure hearts and honest minds begin to pray about the scriptures. After all, if two of us disagree either one of us or both of us are wrong as I believe the Lord did not mean two different things by what He said. Again, maybe it seems to some a pipe dream, but I believe I have seen, at least where I live, an increase in men and women of God coming to see things the same way. There will always be those who are more committed to their way than to seeking God for His. I wonder what will happen to these people in the end?


_________________
Travis

 2012/1/27 12:44Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
"We must stop using the Bible as though it were a potpourri of inerrant proof-texts by which we can bring people into bondage to our religious traditions. (For in practice the only inerrancy we ever defend is the inerrancy of our religious traditions and our way of reading the Bible.) We must no longer use the Bible as the Pharisees used the Torah when they gave it absolute and final status. Christian biblicism is no different from Jewish legalism. It is the old way of the letter, not the new way of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6)." (Brinsmead, Robert D. "A Freedom from Biblicism" in The Christian Verdict, Essay 14, 1984. Fallbrook: Verdict Publications. Pg. 14).




Pilgrim. This quote is hogwash. Look at the book he wrote "A Freedom from Biblicism".?.?.? Preconceived notions at all in his writings?

The Lord is the final authority, in which He wrote His Word in the Bible. The Lord wrote the Bible, yet people will have others believe that it is no longer relevent, or that someone is a pharasee if they follow it.

I follow the Lord, so if I follow the Lord, I have to follow His written Word.

I feel no need to defend the Bible. It defends itself.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/27 12:57Profile





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