SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : King Saul

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
rawhide
Member



Joined: 2011/6/30
Posts: 24


 King Saul

I don't really want to post my personal thoughts yet, but was wondering about different views concerning Saul....did he secure eternal life in heaven or hell? Not trying to be causing strife, was just wanting to know what others thought. Thanks in advance.


_________________
tom bowerman

 2012/1/26 19:10Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re: King Saul

Greetings Rawhide.

I liked the TV series Rawhide with Clint Eastwood, which I watched as a child. Like the song too. "Rolling Rolling Rolling, Keep those doggies moving - Rawhide!"

All we know about Saul is what is actually written about him in the Bible, and since all who are saved are saved through Jesus, which became apparent in the first century AD, yet I'm sure many OT people will be saved through Jesus, but we mortals on Earth today, or at least this mortal, do not know with certainty how that happens. And there is no point in speculating on it. We need to set our minds on the here and now, and share the good news of Jesus Christ as best we can to those we actually do have contact with.

May God continually pour out His many blessings upon you, rawhide.


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/1/26 19:42Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: Old Testament Salvation

One of my favorite perspectives on Old Testament salvation is from Ezekiel 18, the passage that serves to destroy the doctrine of an inborn sinful nature. In this passage God makes it perfectly clear what He's looking for. As in New Testament theology,God remains committed to saving those whose hearts have been converted to serve Him.

All we know about Saul is that according to the text, he was not in that kind of a faith position when he was killed. None of us would assume authority to judge, but it doesn't look good for Saul.

Contrast that with Nebuchadnezzar. Now there's a real jerk on history's stage. But in his last appearance in Daniel, some of which he apparently wrote himself- he passed on with a genuine faith in the Most High God.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2012/1/27 20:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One of my favorite perspectives on Old Testament salvation is from Ezekiel 18, the passage that serves to destroy the doctrine of an inborn sinful nature.



Wait, are you talking about original sin/total depravity, or generational curses?

 2012/1/28 0:11
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: Ezekiel 18

Not to stir a hornet's nest, but this chapter from Ezekiel was very instrumental in my own salvation. Through this and other scriptures I saw my sin not as some natural curse from my father, but as choices I made to gratify my own lusts outside of the law of God.

"The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge" was a common saying used in that day to explain the natural inheritance of sin from one generation to another. God pulls the plug on that kind of thinking in Ezekiel 18. He hates it.

This word of the Lord from Ezekiel is that God only sees individuals, and holds each one accountable. He gives no quarter to inherited sin, and as you can see in the passage He works all the father/ son/ sin/ repentance/ righteousness angles one by one so that God's expectation is perfectly clear. To me it was a call to repent and in no way was I permitted to blame anyone- my father, his father, Adam, and certainly not the Heavenly Father for my sin. Mine alone, repentance the only cure.

You are right. Though formerly a committed Calvinist, I am one no longer.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2012/1/28 0:45Profile









 Re:

I'm no longer a Calvinist either. :)

However, that begs one question: Was it theoretically possible (not probable, but possible) that a person could live a life entirely free of sin from birth to death, being blameless in and of themselves?

 2012/1/28 1:11









 Re:

"However, that begs one question: Was it theoretically possible (not probable, but possible) that a person could live a life entirely free of sin from birth to death, being blameless in and of themselves?".. EverestoSama

No, it is not, because the entire Gospel rests upon the reality of Adams fall, and the Satanic Nature that rested within him.

Romans 5:11-13

"And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

This idea is historically the called the error of Pelagianism,

"Pelagianism derives its name from Pelagius who lived in the 5th century A.D. and was a teacher in Rome, though he was British by birth. It is a heresy dealing with the nature of man. Pelagius, whose family name was Morgan, taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God.

In other words, a person's free will is totally capable of choosing God and/or to do good or bad without the aid of Divine intervention. Pelagianism teaches that man's nature is basically good. Thus it denies original sin, the doctrine that we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam."

http://carm.org/pelagianism

Some say the Finney was bound by these prejudices, as I too believe. In the end, Grace will be cut off from you by adapting the concept that you can overcome by choice, You cannot. It is supreme legalism.

Revelation 12:10-12
"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

We have a cross to bear. We will ultimately crucify Jesus and live for ourselves, our allow the Holy Spirit to crucify ourselves and Jesus to sit on the throne of our lives. We can please Him no other way.

 2012/1/28 1:38









 Re:

Oh, I'm with you Brothertom, I'm just curious the reasoning for saying that one is born without sin, and what direction and ultimate beliefs that will take the adherents to this way of thinking to.

To say that man is born without sin leaves the possibility (remote as it may be) that there theoretically could be a person who was able to live a sin free life (born from the seed of Adam I mean)and have no need of Christ's sacrifice or atonement. Which would contradict what Scripture says on the issue.

 2012/1/28 2:18
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: God's justice

Maybe you are looking in the telescope from the wrong end. If you are born with an inherited sin nature, you have an excuse for the sin you commit. Do you really believe that?

In the passage from Romans, notice how it says that by one man Adam sin entered the world and then death passed to all men. It does not say that sin passed to all men, as is commonly assumed. The text is true and good. There is no Scripture to support the notion that sin is excusable because it is part of human nature- it becomes part of human nature by repetition and habit. That's why God calls people to repent, turn from wicked ways, and practice righteousness.

Could a man be born who could perfectly obey the law of God and bypass the curse of death? Allow me to introduce my friend Jesus, the Son of Man who did exactly that, and demonstrated to the world that it is not only possible, but incumbent on men to do the same.

We are in trouble not because righteousness is impossible, we are in trouble because we choose to gratify ourselves in defiance of God's clear commands. Commands which, as John points out, are not burdensome.

I have seen way too many people approach God for salvation believing they were powerless over sin but secretly believing it wasn't really their fault. Oh they probably are saved, but not much evidence of it shows up in their lives. They think sin is just normal life and they live in it- spiritually powerless.

I can't live like that. Sin is evil, destructive, insulting to my loving Father, and to you or anyone whose only view of Jesus Christ might be me. It is certainly a snare lurking around to catch me, but I regard it as an enemy and nothing more.


Consider these scriptural concepts and give them some meditation.

God said to Cain, "Sin is crouching at the door and it's desire is to have you- but you must master it!" Does God really mean that?

Jesus said of the Pharisees, "Before I came, they did not have sin. But now they have hated both Me and My Father." Whoa. Is He serious?

Jesus to the woman taken in adultery and nearly stoned, "Go- and sin no more." Did He have the authority to tell her that?

And a couple more things before I have to go paint a screen door.

"The error of Pelagius" is a phrase laid on this man by those who in defiance of Ezekiel 18 prefer to explain sin as a natural component of human nature. Pelagius tried to tell people that they were responsible for their behavior. What a fool...??


Charles Finney? 500,000 conversions with a 10 year retention of faith at around 80%? Whole cities weeping in repentance? All without electronic media? A life of daily miracles, a baptism in the Holy Spirit that would put the Assemblies of God to shame?

In error?? Puhhhleeeze!


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2012/1/28 11:52Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Could a man be born who could perfectly obey the law of God and bypass the curse of death? Allow me to introduce my friend Jesus, the Son of Man who did exactly that, and demonstrated to the world that it is not only possible, but incumbent on men to do the same.



I said from the seed of Adam. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost. So this is what I'm curious of then still. It IS possible (note still, I'm not saying probable, but possible) for a man to live a life completely free of sin, and not be in need of salvation from his sin, having no sin of his own? You're saying that apart from Christ there is the chance, remote as it may be, that a person could be without need of the atoning power of Christ, correct?

And I'm not sure I understand the distinction from sin entering the world vs sin entering into mankind. If sin just enters into the world but not into man then so what? Obviously sin had entered into the physical world before Adam ate of the fruit. The serpent existed before the fruit was eaten. Sin was in the world, if we're just referring to it as a physical locality. The devil twisted God's Words and lied. Sin was (physically) in the world, but sin was not in man.

Since you cited Romans, it's interesting to note that the word used for world is kosmos. The same word used in John 3:16. For God so loved the (kosmos). Does it mean the rock and atmosphere that we live on, the physical place and the creation outside of man, or is it the people who dwell on this rock? Which "world" is it talking about? (I'm not discounting that sin has a destructive effect on the physical world either)

And for the record I don't think anyone is trying to pass the buck here. We sin because we want to sin. It's in our nature. That's why we're in need of a new one.

 2012/1/28 11:57





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy