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Amen Pilgrim, well put....... bro Frank
| 2012/1/26 22:38|
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I'm with ya Frank, I think you're getting me.
I get the battle with the flesh, etc. I think perhaps my problem with what I am seeing is it is a whole testoterone driven "Braveheart" thing... instead of turning the other cheek we "fight back", etc.
To some extent I think some of what I have been noticing is perhaps a response to the feminization of the church that has happened in the past generation. Now men are calling on men to "be men"... which I am all for, trust me. But somehow I think at times it has gone too far the other direction so that now intead of Jesus being our role model as men... it's Rambo.
| 2012/1/26 22:40|
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"I'm with ya Frank" I knew you always were :) And I, like you, am not for the Rambo model. I prefer soldiers who march on their knees, love ya man ....... bro Frank
| 2012/1/26 22:46|
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Speaking of Braveheart, did anyone see the news item about Steven Spielberg is preparing to make a "Braveheart-ish" movie about Moses?
I personally have doubts about anyone surpassing Cecil B. Demil's "The Ten Commandments" even if the special effects are a million times better today. When The Ten Commandments came out (I was but a wee lad) I thought it was the most awesome movie.
| 2012/1/26 22:58||Profile|
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Where does it say in scripture that we need warriors for Christ?
Interesting observation, Krispy. I think you raise a valid concern. But its not merely whether it can be biblically supported or not. Its what happens to the metaphor in the hands of the wrong people. Spiritual metaphors do have a tendency to assume a sinister flavor in unspiritual minds like when the kingdom of God become synonymous with an earthly kingdom. The medieval crusaders saw themselves as warriors for Christ. Likewise it is possible that in the future, given a chance, todays unregenerate warriors for Jesus could take their title quite literally, or rather unspiritually. And they will fight against flesh and blood the infidels.
Interesting, some branches of the church are attempting to remove all war imagery in hymns and such. So now its not politically correct. In my view, thats going the other way too far. Its throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You lose a powerful picture for the Christian life.
| 2012/1/26 23:05||Profile|
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There is actually a thread on Sermonindex about the "Feminization of Christianity".
There are assaults upon every facet of Christianity and the Bible today by our "modern" culture, today.
The thing about being a warrior for Christ is we fight by loving and forgiving our enemy and the tenderest most delicate soul can die terrible deaths with courage and grace all because of the life of Jesus Christ in them. This is warfare!
This is the overcoming life.
Being faithful to God in the midst of great temptation is warfare and the overcoming life.
Enduring till the end (of your life) when all hope is seemingly gone, this is warfare and the overcoming life.
When you forgive and love when you are slandered and misrepresented by those who say they represent God, this is warfare and the overcoming life.
After donning all of your spiritual armor, warfare is having done all, to stand!
Fighting against the temptation and inclinations of the flesh to fight back in a carnal way and praying for your enemies, instead of defending yourself.
This is warfare. Real men and women, love Jesus and are not afraid to show it.
Fight the good fight of faith. It doesn't take testosterone, it takes faith.
If it took testosterone all the power lifters that hang out in the gym would be raising the dead and healing the sick.
| 2012/1/27 1:20||Profile|
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Spiritual metaphors do have a tendency to assume a sinister flavor in unspiritual minds.
I think this is a good explanation of the problem. It is not the metaphor, but how people apply it to their behavior that we are troubled with. In this case, if we don't see or grasp the concept of spiritual battles, we may conclude that our fight is against flesh and blood. It is certainly tempting!
The metaphor of a Christian warrior is often used to inspire Christians to be leading men rather then following them. However, the rub is that we perceive leadership differently from one another.
For instance, some of us are "command and control" types, and so naturally see leadership as hierarchical and managing. These are more apt to be attracted to Bible verses that paint the Christian as a challenging influencer of men for Christ. Some leaders are consensus builders, and so naturally are attracted to verses that paint the Christian leader as one who humbly serves men needs for Christ. Others view leadership as bringing together collaboration, and are attracted to scriptures that paint the leader as one who inspires others to use their gifts to serve Christ.
All of these leadership perspectives are valid. This is how I explain why there can be multiple differing perspectives among mature Christian leaders, that someow contribute to a single overall picture that is biblical and even prophetic when integrated.
| 2012/1/27 1:29||Profile|
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There are countless assaults on the Bible and Christianity, today.
Your post about "war imagery" taken out of hymns is one I had not thought of.
Here are some Intellectual, Political, Humanistic, Religious assaults on Christianity that I have run into.
1. Gender neutral God of the Bible
2. Gender neutral pronouns in general. (humankind instead of mankind).
3. "New Atheism" today says they have the moral high ground over the God of the OT because He was a butcher.
4. Universalism is spreading.
5. Satan is not a real being, but just the antithesis of good (whatever that means).
6. Political correction beginning to permeate new Bible versions.
7. Jesus was not God, because "God is One" argument.
8. Stories in the OT are just myths and superstitions.
9. Jesus was a product of the superstitious day He lived in and that is why He believed in the existence of the Devil and Hell.
10. Paul preached Judaism.
11. Ecumenicalism (Counter-Reformation continues today).
There is much more that I cannot even think of right now.
What did Paul say,
2Co 7:5 For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.
Christianity has always had warfare from within and without.
| 2012/1/27 1:33||Profile|
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Hey this has turned into a great conversation... I was a little concerned at the outset that I had not adequately expressed myself... I love you guys.
Pilgrim... excellent words, brother.
| 2012/1/27 8:28|
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it takes a 'warrior' to turn the other cheek, and fulfill the passages in the beatitudes you've quoted
a warrior doing violence to one's "self-life"
in this way, the demons are defeated in our lives and around about us
we're not making this message too clear to youth groups that love the imagery
Lance Lambert is a good preacher on here with messages on our being inducted into a real spiritual army -- " Fight the Good Fight" and "Strong in the Lord" .... given in Memphis, Tenn ... along these lines
| 2012/1/27 8:55||Profile|