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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732

 On fundamentalism, biblioidolatry, and many other worries.

This is shared not from a moderator, but as an associate and hopefully a brother.

I just hope, that as we identify what's wrong with everyone elses Christianity, that we realize that Jesus will still come through for us. Christians are indeed guilty of endless species of of fundamentalism, biblioidolatry, churchianity, or any other crimes against idealism in our catalog, Just know that at the end of the day, we have come to Christ precisely because we have let go of our idealized self. It's old news that we see through a glass darkly.

So as long as we aren't stealing from one another our peace in Christ, however flawed our doctrine or belief systems may be, I suppose these provcative names we give to one another are harmless dicussions. On the other hand, if we are saying someone who is exhibits signs of fundamentalism or biblioidolatry is really not in Christ; that they have been fooled into believing in religous rules or a dusty book instead of a living savior...then I think we may be guilty of believing in a presumption of our own.

We call out to Jesus from where we are at. We know, without a shadow of a doubt, we are contaminated with the philosophies of the social context we live in. That is why Americans Christians are Americanized, just as European Christians are European, and Liberian Christian are Liberian.

It's wearisome that we never seem to get over this around here. Our constant shock and offense at one another limits our interactions to droll commentary. Our needle sharp criticism of anything that moves in the church is alienating one another from the peace of an all-sufficent savior.

The cummulative message is that none of us have actually believed in the saving Gospel. And while it may be healthy to remind one another to not be conformed to this world, it is also healthy to remind ourselves that we can not save ourselves out of this world, and for this very reason we have a savior who came into the world to meet us where are at.

Jesus saves the fundies, the bibliophiles, and the republicans that have called upon his name:) Let them rejoice in his name, and let God correct their incorrect perceptions. He actually knows how!

Thank you all for letting me express this.


Mike Compton

 2012/1/20 11:30Profile

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: On fundamentalism, biblioidolatry, and many other worries.

This is a good mature word for all of us brother. God is indeed able to save to the uttermost, all who put their trust in Him. This includes any and all of the "isms"; His blood and compassion transcend and are able to strike at depths where angels and devils are not able to reach. We simply have no idea of what God can do within the bosoms of our neighbors. It seems the more unorthodox and abstruse their positions, the more His Spirit triumphs to save to the bafflement of the religious. There will be some tremendous, tremendous shocks at the judgment, and of this I have absolutely no doubt.

Paul Frederick West

 2012/1/20 11:49Profile

Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re: On fundamentalism, biblioidolatry, and many other worries.

Spirituality can operate fundamentally.
Fundamentalism can result in spirituality.
Fundamentalism does not necessarily equal spirituality.
Spirituality is not always fundamentally fundamental.
Fundamentality, while possibly stricken with a temptation away from spirituality, is not fundamentally wrong.

What we want and need is a fundamentally spiritual life...the two are not mutually exclusive, but are supposed to be one and the same. We see this in the life of Christ. His doctrine was as pure as the most glistening liquid gold, his expression of that doctrine was as loving as the breadth of our universe and still greater. The two were not bifurcated in him, he was the very incarnation of truth, and love.

Jesus is seeking those who would worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. Therefore, the spiritual objective is to double-fist overflowing cups of both. It has been said before, truth without love is brutal, love without truth is worthless.

I am sure someone can find a way to find erroneous heresy in the statement. I hope many of us just get over ourselves and serve Jesus through loving his body on a regular basis.

I have great hope that our Amazing Lord of Glory is working these realities in many peoples lives in America today. My greatest need is for him to work them both into my life. I appreciate your post brother.

Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2012/1/20 12:27Profile

Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


That's a very good piece, Mike and Paul.

To be sure, we have freedom to discuss philosophies that take us away from Christ or bring us to Christ, but we don't have freedom to label people and judge them.

"We are so conditioned by the world around us to want to analyze and evaluate how well we are doing – even in the process of Christian spirituality. First of all, it’s not our doing; it’s HIS DOING, by His GRACE. So, it’s “none of our business” to try to ascertain our progress in Christian spirituality. It’s not for us to know, or analyze, or evaluate, or assess where we’re at on the journey, much less in comparison to anyone else. ...This goes against all of the “outcome analysis” of contemporary productivity and success guidelines, but “God’s ways are not our ways” (Isa. 55:8,9)."

Just take a look at this article on "What Does It Mean To Be Spiritual?”

I believe many of these thoughts are what Mike and Paul are trying to express.


Galatians 5:15-18
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 2012/1/20 12:29Profile

Joined: 2010/3/27
Posts: 49


Aw man, you guys are taking all the Fun out of Fundamentalism! Which leaves us with Damentalism, a pernicious heresy.

What do we live for, but to scrutinize our neighbors for apostacy and compromise? Take this activity away, and we are left with something less than fundamentalism.

On another thread, Theological Armageddon is raging over whether the Hypostatic Union of the Incarnate Son was an a priori extracalvincom hypostasis or a post priori putative hypostasis. If we start tolerating one another, we would become incapable of carrying on such high-level dialogues.

 2012/1/20 14:11Profile

Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1452

 Matthew 18

This morning I spent time studying Matthew 18. It deals with some issues we should remember in humility and fear before the Lord. Verses 1 to 4 tell us how we are to come to the Lord Jesus Christ as little children, in fear, awe and humility knowing we have no wisdom, power or wealth. In 5 through 10 we have warning to all those who take on the work of a shepard and especially those who try to mislead the flock because their sin will hurt God's children. Likewise, when it talks about cutting off hands and feet and gouging out eyes that cause one to sin, it is because that person's sin can corrupt the whole flock. And yet, Jesus says that this is needful that there may be separation but woe unto those through whom it comes. Then in verses 11 to 14, the Father demonstrates His heart for the sheep that go stray by talking about the one that has left the flock that He searchs for and when found, returns rejoicing. This is the foundation for the next section that talks about restoring a brother that has sinned against you, that person is a dear sheep our Father loves, therefore we should love him and seek his restoration by stronger and stronger methods. The image here is of those who are safe in the fold desiring the list one back but if they won't come, they are as lost not willing to come under the direction, wisdom and protection of the Chief Shepard Jesus Christ. In this passage it is clear that we are to treat them as lost and unregenerate. And yet we are to view this fear because Christ has given this authority to cast out those who are unrepentant. With judgement there is also grace which is why Jesus Christ tells Peter to forgive a brother seventy times seven times. This takes us to the parable of the ungrateful servant who after being forgiven an unimaginablely large debt accosts his brother over a debt between them. Actually this takes us back to the beginning of the chapter where we are instructed that we are to come to the Lord humbly as little children, unable to feed, protect or care for ourselves. Everything we have has been given of God so the debt our brother owes us is not truly ours at all but God's. After all, if we had given God all that we had in hopes of repaying our incredible debt, that amount we had lent would be His too.

Perhaps this is a good reminder as we deal with each other to realize our state before the King and to consider ourselves in our witness that we do not cause our brothers to stumble, lovingly rebuking and exhorting one another that those who have gone astray might be restored and those who will not repent separated unto damnation. For God has graciously forgiven our debts and provided all we need lest we think any good thing we have been given the honor of sharing is our own. Amen.

 2012/1/20 14:32Profile

 Re: On fundamentalism, biblioidolatry, and many other worries.

Point taken.

It is also good to remember that sometimes we have to tear down before we can build up. When the foundation that the house was built on was faulty, fixing the house does no good. The house needs to be torn down and the foundation dug up before a house can be rebuilt upon it. When an issue surrounds the actual person of Christ this is the very foundation of Christianity, and one must be sound here or the house will surely collapse under its own weight.
Proverbs 17:15 teaches that to consider a brother as a lost person one is an abomination before the Lord, but what few recognize is that it also teaches that to consider a lost person as a brother, one is just as much an abomination before the Lord! Those who haphazardly consider each one a brother or sister in Christ make just as serious a decision as those who question these things. The point is not to make no judgment, but to discern and make RIGHT judgment based on the absolutes in the word of God.


 2012/1/20 19:10

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


we have freedom to discuss..

Right now I am hitting myself on the head, totally flabbergasted by what’s happening here. Our free reign to discuss whatever we want, I think is unprecedented. Of course it can also offer an easy distraction from our highest calling as God’s people.

We are so conditioned by the world around us to want to analyze and evaluate ….

And more. We are also conditioned to being our own heroes in our own spotlights. With internet we can publish ourselves on Facebook, and our own song on Youtube – right along with the celebrities. It’s the glorious reign of the individual.

In an instant we can be self-acclaimed experts. Here we all have our opportunity to be amateur theologians, apologists, therapists, discernment specialists, prophets and, preachers – oh, and also, riot police. And we don’t have to wait for accreditation, to get invited, wait in line, or to become famous. We just click on “submit” .

It's a great venue to freely learn, explore, fall, and wrestle. The only trouble with all this is – we can forget our limits. And when our lofty tower gets up too high in the clouds, that’s when it is a blessing that someone like our dear brother draws us back down to the real world – and to our real calling. Meanwhile, we've learned something more about ourselves.

Thank you,


 2012/1/20 20:07Profile

Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


Hi Roadsign,

We are "free to discuss" within the confines of being led by the Spirit.

When we are outside of the boundaries that God has set for us by His Life within US, we are then walking in the flesh.


 2012/1/20 20:18Profile

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC


Amen. Who can add to such a word except to say amen? :-)

Jimmy H

 2012/1/20 21:00Profile

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