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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Do humans deserve the suffering they experience?

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Zionshield
Member



Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re: Do humans deserve the suffering they experience?

Thanks for your responses. In a sense I wanted to check my understanding of this concept. That quote and the following ones were in response to someone who does not agree that humans deserve the suffering they experience. I understand the wording is harder to cope with, but if we agree that Hell is what we rightfully deserve, then any less suffering would also be earned.


"What is the wages of sin? Is there anyone who has not sinned? Is this wage something deserved, earned? Isn't it true that we cannot earn heaven? Isn't it true that Christ took our place because we deserved what he received for us? Human beings are by nature depraved enemies of God as described in Scripture, but God rather than giving us what we deserve had mercy (which is withholding from us what we should get) and by His grace (which is giving us something we don't deserve) sent Jesus because of His great love. If we could deserve heaven it would not be a gift, we do not deserve heaven. God can be with us in the midst of suffering...suffering is not the problem, seperation from God is the problem. Did not this God destroy the entire race except for one family in the flood? Was He just in doing so? Didn't He have Joshua kill every man, woman and child in Canaan? Was He loving and just? It is the greater picture of God's purpose that brings meaning in what appears to be tradgedy. We like Job can only place our hand over our mouth because such things are more than we can grasp."


_________________
Randy Lambert

 2012/1/22 22:20Profile
Zionshield
Member



Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re: seperation worse than suffering


"I believe we must make a distinction between God as Ceator and God as Father. He is not the father of all , but only those that have been given the authority to become the children of God as stated in John 1 or 2. We as humans don't like to think that God has a right to do with His creation as He chooses and is right in what he chooses to do. We think God is like us and is subject to the rules we are which is of course false. You think God has abandoned us. No, He invaded this planet to win us back. You did not respond to the statement that is the crux of the matter. You seem to see suffering and death as the worst part of human existence. It is not, it is temporary and it can be endured with God's presence. It also drives us to God or otherwise a rejection of Him. If a person can see Jesus, God in the flesh, the personification of everything praise worthy..love, grace, wisdom, justice etc.. and reject Him that person is as Paul said accursed...there is nothing redeemable about the person that has finalized that decision. The worst state in humanity is to be seperated from this Being that is Life. Think very basic...He is life support, oxygen, blood, food, water (these are metaphors of course) We cannot have life apart fron Him."


_________________
Randy Lambert

 2012/1/22 22:24Profile
Zionshield
Member



Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re: problem of pain

Ultimately once I understood that there is no good existance apart from God I had to come to terms with why God made so many that would end up in Hell. Two things helped me. One was realizing that when God created man he created s being that had no ability to be good within himself and therefore could not otherwise avoid Hell without God's intervention...not if man were to have his own volition. To create the groundwork for love and grace there had to be this risky and tragic scenario. Something I understood from CS Lewis's "Problem of Pain" that helped grapple with the reality of Hell also is that the man is not at all what he was when he was born. His choices to reject Christ and embrace rebellion and self thousands of times cements into what he becomes, a hellish shell of what he was meant to be. The word perish is the perfect choice word in John 3:16. I think of the word ripe as used in the old testament and revelation describing people who would not repent and as they suffered God's wrath they ripened by stiffening their necks and embracing their sin. The Canaanites had 400 years to repent before Joshua was sent. The future (or present) generations of earth are referred to as the grapes of wrath that God is waiting for them to reach their full measure of evil. I've said a great deal now. If anyone has made their way through this and can make sense of it if there is any wrong thinking in it I'd like to know. Thank you.


_________________
Randy Lambert

 2012/1/22 22:41Profile





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