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 Re:

"Oh one more thing, someone mentioned desensitization. There is the show 'Modern Family' which is an ironic name for the content. The Gay couple on the show makes me laugh. It is the reason why I watch it if and when I do yet how many watches are getting desensitized by it? Is it happening to me? I don't know but I Guard my heart on it. btw, I see that show maybe every other week to every 3rd week if that."

Sister, I would seek the Lord alone for His answer to this question. If I answered you directly, I'd be getting legalistic in a sense or giving you the opinion of "man". If the Lord convicts your own heart, then let the Holy Spirit direct your steps down His narrow path. Bless you in His love!

 2012/1/19 11:56
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
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 Re:

Quote:
Oh one more thing, someone mentioned desenitization.


Yes, this is true - as it is for any harmful pattern or habit. Romans One addresses a conglomeration of sins all intertwined with the dulling of the minds. So, as a society strays from God (as we are seeing), sins such homosexuality, AND also strife and heartlessness towards others, don’t register as sin in the conscience. (That can hit close to home, can’t it!) The heart is calloused over, hardened. It has lost sensitivity.

But note: The Romans epistle quickly moves (in Chapter 2) towards a different kind of desensitization – something insidiously more evil: That of the desensitization among God’s people. These people are acutely adept at registering societal evils as sin – but they are unable to register their own sins. Their consciences are blind, and so they merrily set out to help others eradicate sin, but they themselves break God’s law. As you read on in Romans, you see what that law is, which God’s people are required to observe.

In your mission, Deadn, the best way to avoid getting derailed in the Romans 2 predicament, is to precede forward through the chapters in Romans. Let them sink into every fiber of your being. And then…. clothed in the Lord Jesus, you will be well-equipped to proclaim Jesus Christ into the hearts of those who do not know his abundant life, and are trying to make life work in their own strength – yes even your homosexual relative. And then you will not be a stumbling block, as so many zealous Christians have become, who are blind guides, and who aggressively and ruthlessly take a stand against this one most glaring societal sin: homosexuality.

What could be more sinful than God's people abandoning their attentiveness to the only Hope for our fallen world (and hiding their sin behind a preoccupation with the sins of others).

May Rom. 15:19 be true in your life:

“Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you,
but I want to you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil.”

"… to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ....
that the nations might believe and obey him.. (:26)


Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/19 12:08Profile
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 Re: Sree

"First of all no mater what science says, we Christians have to believe that Homosexuals are not born as they are. We might be looked down like fools, I believe many posters here will look down on me for saying this. But it is a fact, just how Evolution and Bible cannot be true same way Born as Homosexual and homosexual sin cannot be true."

Science is a field of love and hate relationships. Science gives us so much in the advancement of society that a person really has to be careful when that advancement crosses the line into falsehood. How much do we rely on science to help us in so many areas? Than one wonders how they get some things so seemingly wrong? According to christian doctrine.


"Some of your friends might say they never got attracted to opposite sex so they are born with same sex desires. Do not believe them, these people are influenced by already Homosexual friends and this influence has caused them to believe that their nature itself is different. For example, a baby boy who is raised by two Gays will also have high chance of Growing into Gay. Because this is what he sees everyday and he thinks this is natural. So I would encourage Christian parents not to let their kids to be with Gay or homosexual kids. It might influence their sexuality as well.

Another reason for high number of Gays in US is the increase in number of Single parents in US. Young Girls and Boys Grow with high attachment to opposite sex parent (either Single Mom or Dad) and hence the same sex becomes an unknown entity. We always have an attraction to unknown entity. That is why we see Old men and women who had sex with opposite sex partners all their life gets to try the unknown which is same sex partner at their latter age. This is not some Hormonal issue."

I used to think this same way myself but I wondered how much credibility it held. I used to think that many of those who say they are homosexual went this way as a result of molestation in their early years. It seems more and more I don't hear those stories anymore. I Hear stories of 'I was just a different person from the other kids when I was younger'.
I remember being in elementary and there was this kid who seemed just weird in his ways. He didn't act like the typical boy and as a result sometimes was made fun of. Later, when he got into high school I found out that he came out of the closet and his mannerisms came out even more. It was as if they were boxed in as a kid. He had parents and I actually worked with him on a project in elementary school and I cringed a bit because of his mannerisms. I think back to his life and wondered what happened there? Naturally speaking his make up seemed to be this yet I also wonder does he have a hormone imbalance?

I know in Romans it talks about homosexuality yet how do we reconcile those who do know how the single parent thing, don't have the molestation thing going on in their lives that could have caused them to become homosexual? We do run a danger of making this thing too much of an emotional issue and allowing ourselves to accept homosexuality as normal as a result of touching emotional stories and we can't go down that road. Yet, it would not be right to point the finger using the bible in a hard way as well- would it? Too many christians have pointed the finger of blame in this area.

My parents divorced when I was 13? My brother and I lived with mom. Dad was 6 blocks down the street but always criticized us for going with mom. In his words we were going to hell for going with a divorcee. Meantime, mom made it a point to work her tail off and raise us up with morals and such whereas dad lived in pain. I didn't have any sexual attraction to any males at all and if I did it was subtle stuff and never went into action.

Lastly, Sree- do you know for sure that what you say in this last paragraph is correct or are you making a good guess that it has got to be true? The arguments that I see steer away from this and as a result I am trying to understand how to understand this thing and what is exactly happening with homosexuality.


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John

 2012/1/20 7:28Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

This is the exact view I am opposing in my previous post. Can you please read my previous post?
Brother, both of them cannot be true. Either Bible should be true or Science. One cannot take the stand you are taking.
Do you believe in Evolution? No right then what makes you believe in Science?
Either Jesus is God and he came back from dead, as we all believe or he should have been a mad man claiming that he is Son of God. But there cannot be a balance between the two, saying he is a good teacher but not actually God etc.




Sree
What should we throw Science out for anything? We use science for so much in the advancement of society. That doesn't mean we can believe science for everything because sometimes it goes off the road. Sciences uses only the natural world for its results yet should we see the bible glorified through it for if God made this natural world surely we would see His fingerprint in it whether we choose to acknowledge it or not.

Do I believe in evolution? No, but I also am not settled that the Earth is 6000 years old either.I am just not sure what is going on there but for me it really doesn't matter. Proving who Jesus is easier than proving that the Earth is 6,000 years old because of evidence of history. We only have the Bible to show the Earth might be 6000 years old based on our study of the verses from the original manuscripts but then if that is the case what is science missing that it says the Earth is Millions of years old?

Can you tell me that you really throw science out the window in all regards because it doesn't always match up with the Bible? Just curious.


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John

 2012/1/20 7:39Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

In your mission, Deadn, the best way to avoid getting derailed in the Romans 2 predicament, is to precede forward through the chapters in Romans. Let them sink into every fiber of your being. And then…. clothed in the Lord Jesus, you will be well-equipped to proclaim Jesus Christ into the hearts of those who do not know his abundant life, and are trying to make life work in their own strength – yes even your homosexual relative. And then you will not be a stumbling block, as so many zealous Christians have become, who are blind guides, and who aggressively and ruthlessly take a stand against this one most glaring societal sin: homosexuality.



The very last beginning with 'zealous' is one key factor why I have pursued this a bit. zealousness in the scriptures can do ALOT of harm to people.
'Aggressively and ruthlessly'- Should those even been terms associated with Christians? Maybe Agressively in wisdom but ruthless has no part. It is my opinion that some Christians will take the Romans road and use it as a machine gun to kill people with it instead of calling them to repentance. It is a 'natural' tendency to do such a thing when one gets a 'religious' spirit.

My whole intention is to understand why homosexuals, and specifically the ones who are very flamboyant to the point that you don't have to hear them speak, their mannerisms show you they they are 'different' and how to approach this in accordance to the gospel.

I will be looking at exodus international to see what they have to say about it as well.


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John

 2012/1/20 7:48Profile
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 Re:

hi, the gay lifestyle is a lifestyle of sin but so is the heterosexual lifestyle outside of marriage. i will stand up with the homosexual people and love them and witness to them and demonstrate the love of Jesus to them for they need a redeemer like everyone else. their sin is against natural life and is declared worse then your sin or mine. ido not understand the attraction of a man with another man romanically and i know that they will be delivered up as reprobates but i have seen some converted(saved) and delivered. i will myself to love these people for i believe that Jesus died for them ,also.

 2012/1/20 7:49Profile
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Lakeland FL

 Re:

Jimp
I agree with what you say and I stand with you in what you have said.


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John

 2012/1/20 7:58Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
My whole intention is to understand why homosexuals, and specifically the ones who are very flamboyant to the point that you don't have to hear them speak, their mannerisms show you they they are 'different' and how to approach this in accordance to the gospel.



This looks like an honorable goal, Deadn. You wish to understand gays so that you can meaningfully engage the good news of Jesus Christ in their lives. I might be able to provide some direction. I took a seminary course called ‘Human Sexuality in a Christian Perspective” taught by Dr. Ephraim Radner of Wycliffe Seminary, Toronto. He might be able to direct you further. Dr. Radner has been defending the position against ordination of gays in the Anglican Church, and he is very much a leader in this. He is well-equipped with knowledge and research, and his defense is well-secured Biblically (I believe). You get meaty content from him,putting it mildly. Don't expect to be spoon fed with instant answers. As far as the behaviors you mention, I’m sure you may get some help there too. (I cannot post the course content here, because it would be a copywrite infringement.)

BTW, Dr. Radner has written a commentary on Leviticus in which he demonstrates how homosexuality is a violation, not merely of an outdated OT law, but of the nature of God as a God of life. In other words, he brings the purity law code forward into the gospel of Christ – and the purpose of Christ - to give Life. (Of course, that principle has implications for other contemporary issues which have to do with the restriction of life.)



Quote:
we Christians have to believe that Homosexuals are not born as they are.


True. At this point there is no definitive evidence of any physiological root cause for homosexuality. BUT…. Believers of the gospel can point to a spiritual root – the same one that all are born with: It is the separation from God. Because of that condition gays as well as straights set out a path of life that ultimately will not work. And here is where the solution is the same for a lesbian atheist as it is for the esteemed cleric: It is Jesus Christ. We cannot choose to be sinners, but we can choose God’s solution, or rather we can give ourselves to him to give us new life. And in this, sinners need God’s help (and our long-suffering patience).

Deadn, you mention the various social conditions that are “blamed” for homosexuality, and you also note that those conditions may be absent for some. So true! Statistics merely reveal tendencies. I don’t think they are necessarily always used as an “excuse”.

We can all point to gays who were raised in good Christian families. Yet if we could look closer, we would have to say that even “good” families can be fractured in many ways. Also, we can’t see the countless other factors that affect the shaping of an individual.


Here’s contact info: Wycliffe College Faculty Page

http://www.wycliffecollege.ca/faculty.php?aid=8 Click on Dr. Radner’s “Show Details” link. I don’t see much in the publications per se on homosexuality, but his email address and phone number is here.
(you probably should give him my name: Diane Eaton)


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Diane

 2012/1/20 11:12Profile
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 Re:

Roadsign
Thanks for the link. I have sent an email to him. I was also sent a link from a moderator which I am looking in to.

Normally I wouldn't care about this whole thing but I noticed it is becoming common place in America and I am seeing it much too often even in blogs and I want to be able to confront it but be intelligent and not lean on emotional nonsense to rebuke it.


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John

 2012/1/20 12:55Profile
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Normally I wouldn't care about this whole thing but I noticed it is becoming common place in America and I am seeing it much too often even in blogs and I want to be able to confront it but be intelligent and not lean on emotional nonsense to rebuke it.



Deadn, I’m happy about your desire to wade through the mountains of visible evidence and intelligently discern the issue of homosexuality. And yes, keeping free from emotional influences is a challenge. I’ll share one story to illustrate your concern:

My course assignments included writing critical reviews of various books related to the topic of sexuality in the Christian perspective. One book was a debate between two biblical scholars – one for and one against homosexuality. They each used the Bible to support their positions. In my observation the nay-sayer used a substantial amount of shaky biblical support – proof texting and reading into passages what is not there. He was, in my estimation, colored by his emotions and rationalizations. This merely gave his opponent points to argue against, and thus lend credence to his argument that homosexuality is a biblically acceptable lifestyle. So then - the position one supports may be right, but the defense might be in error. In such cases, silence may be safer.

If you are keen, you may wish to broaden your investigation of social issues. For example, anorexia is a growing concern. Anorexics ban together, especially on the internet, to support their condition and to glorify it.It's like their own Pride Movement. And they have the fashion industry on their side.

Yet anorexia is a life threatening condition. Many are dying from it. Three of my students are anorexics in treatment. Yet there is nothing in the Bible that says anorexia is an abomination. That’s because that did not exist in Bible days - nor a lot of our social abominations that are unique to an affluent culture like ours.

So, while homosexuality is a legitimate concern, there is a host of social ailments that are at the present far more destructive and dangerous. We Christians must ask why there is so little said about, say, anorexia and far more about homosexuality? What does that say about our approach to scripture?

Deadn, God bless you!
Looking forward to hearing more from you,

Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/21 11:05Profile





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