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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Christianity is Not a Book Religion

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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Christianity is Not a Book Religion

There are some ongoing discussions about Biblicism, Legalism, the Bible versus the Living Word and I thought this would help people to understand a bit better the point of these discussions.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotbrel.html

After reading this article on "Christianity Is Not A Book Religion", take this test:

I think Jim Fowler did a good job in presenting this and look forward to your feedback.

1. What was your initial reaction/response after reading this article?

2. How do you think Christianity can become a religion of the Book?

3. Since the Bible is like any other book, literature, history, poetry, etc., how is it not like any other book?

4. In your own words, define the term “Bibliolatry”.
UNBIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE

5. Please answer the following statements either true or false.

“we trust the Bible because of it’s sufficiency as the Lord’s perfect word” (Bible). 2 Cor. 3:5; 2 Cor. 9:8

“We find true freedom from the Bible because our freedom comes from the Bible”. Gal. 1:16; Jn. 14:6

“The Bible is our “blue print” for knowing how to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”. 2Pt. 3:18

“We can trust the Bible the same way we can trust in Christ
because the Living Word (Jesus) and the written word (the Bible) are the same thing”. 2 Cor. 3:5; 2 Cor. 9:8

“Believing the Bible results in eternal life”. Jn. 5:39; Jn. 17:3

6. What does it mean to you to deify someone or something?

7. What happens when you take an attribute of God, such as His eternality, absoluteness, authority, power, sufficiency for living, holiness, sanctification, inerrancy, etc., and attribute these to the Bible?

8. As you read the Bible and come across words such as “word”, “ordinance”, “doctrine”, “commandments”, “teaching”, “revelation”, “precepts”, etc., do you automatically think of your bound canonized Bible you carry with you?

9. Do you realize that these terms are not talking about the bound canonized Book we carry with us to church?
AN HISTORICAL REVIEW OF BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING

10. What do you gather from reading Rom.11:33, 36; 1 Cor.8:6?

11. When you think of the phrase “out of His Being” what comes to mind?

12. Since God is a Being of expression, does it make sense that He expresses Himself from an intent, purpose, or plan?

13. In what ways can you think of God expressing Himself?

14. What is God’s primary expressional intent?

15. How is it that we as Christians can express God’s character? See page eight. (Sorry, I don't know what he means by page 8).

16. What are some ways that would be manifested in our words, attitudes, thinking, and actions?

17. Write down one key truth that speaks to you from these verses. Rom. 2:4; 9:23; Eph. 1:7; 3:8,16; Col. 1:27; 2:2; 1 Cor.8:6.

18. From these key truths, write down one that is most meaningful to you right now and explain why?

19. What is the spiritual resource that makes expressing God’s character possible in our behavior? See 2 Cor.4:4; Col. 1:15.

20. What was it the Pharisees missing when they searched the Scripture? Jn. 5:38, 39.

21. What were they searching for?

22. Would you say people are searching today for the same thing?

23. What to you do the words “objectify”, “tangibilize”, and “absolutize mean to you?

24. How do we get to know God? 2 Cor.4:4; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3

25. Would you agree that as Jesus was nearing the end of His earthly ministry that He would have some important departing words?

26. What does Jesus tell them, “make sure you keep my teachings”, “I am leaving you something someday you will call a Bible”, or “I will send the Helper that He may be with you forever”? Jn.14:16, 17, 23, 26.

27. From the verses from question twenty-six, what does Jesus do?, what does the Father do?, What does the Father send?, How is the One sent described?, Where will the One sent abide or live?, and what will this sent One do in relation to you?

28. Jesus did not promise to send a Book or a “statement of faith” or a “theological work”. Do you agree with this statement? Why or why not?

29. Why do you think God cannot be reduced to volumes written in the vocabularies of men? Jn. 21:25.

30. What does the phrase “man’s receptivity to God’s activity” mean to you?

31. When you consider the early Church had no personal copy of the Scripture, and that the New Testament hadn’t been written yet, and approximately eighty percent of the people were illiterate and couldn’t read even if they wanted to, and that they were mostly Gentiles with no religious Bible background, how do you think they lived the Christian life?

32. Do you think that when the early Church got together that they did “Bible Study”, as we know it? If not what do you think they did?

33. Do you agree or disagree with the Statement by Robert
Brinsmead? Why or why not?

A BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE
34. True or false:
Christians today often use the Bible as a rule Book.

Christians today use the Bible as a guide for morality and ethics.

Christians today use the Bible as “proof texts” to defend Christian doctrine.

35. According to Jn.5:38-40, what is the primary purpose of the Bible? See also Jn.. 20:30, 31.

36. Do the verses above bear witness to a written document or a Person? Is the book mentioned in verse thirty something we believe in, or Someone they point to?

37. According to 2Tim. 3:15, what Scripture was Paul talking about? As you read this passage in the past, did you automatically think of the bound canonized Bible you hold in your hand?

38. Why couldn’t Paul be referring to the New Testament?

39. Read the last paragraph on page sixteen and read page seventeen as to what the author says about the word of God. Do you agree or disagree? Why or why not? (Again, sorry, I don't know what pages he is referring to).

40. When you read Rom. 15:4 what is our hope to be in? Read also Col. 1:27.

41. In the past when you read Eph. 6:17, where the “word of God” is mentioned, did you think of this as the canonized Bible of 66 books, 39 in O.T. and 27 in the N. T., rather than the personalized word of God that God speaks to the Christian? The word “word” here in Greek is Rhema rather than Logos.

42. The author lists seven verses pertaining to the use of the “word” what does the author say this refers to? Do you agree or disagree?

Why or why not?

43. What are your thoughts on the following statement:: “The Spirit of Christ, who is Truth (Jn.14:6), may utilize the Bible to reveal and disclose Himself. But He does not require the written Book in order to do so. The Teacher is not tied to the text! The Spirit is not
bound in the Bible! Christ is not chained or contained in the words of a Book”!

44. Has this article and it’s teaching gone against what you were taught about how to view the Bible?

45. Do you view the Bible as an “end to a means”, or more
instrumental for the Spirit of Christ to use if He chooses to?

46. As you think about the dynamic reality of the living Christ, underline the statement that you believe to be the most accurate and true.

“We learn primarily from the Bible”
“We learn primarily from Jesus Christ Himself by His Spirit”
“We are to put our faith in the Bible”
“We are to put our faith in Jesus Christ”
“We are to put our hope in the Bible”
“We are to put our hope in Jesus Christ”
“Our love for the Bible”
“Our love for Jesus”

47. When you were a kid did you ever see something in a catalog that you just had to have. So your parents ordered it for you.

Everyday, while you were waiting for the item to arrive you would open the catalog and look at the picture anticipating its arrival.

The day comes when it arrives, and your all excited. But then you take the package and set it aside unopened, and go back and continue to look at the picture in the catalog. Now, does that make any sense? The reality has arrived, but you continue to look at the catalog, a “picture book”. In a sense that is what the Old Testament is, a picture book pointing to the arrival of the
Reality, Jesus Christ. It is an instrument that points us to Someone. Can you say after reading this article that Christianity is Not a Book Religion, but Christianity IS Christ?

 2012/1/12 12:39Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: Christianity is Not a Book Religion

If you have His Word, and you do not love it, How can you love Him?

John 1.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/12 12:41Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

You are right, everyone who has His Word, must love Him.

So, in this respect, what do you think of when you think of "Word"?

All the best,
Pilgrim

 2012/1/12 12:43Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

John 1


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/12 12:45Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Miccah,

Are you still not understanding what we are saying? Can you give me some idea if you are understanding a little bit or not? This quote was helpful to me. Is anything in this helpful to you?

Fundamentalism stumbles at the consubstantial relation between the free continuous act of God's self-communication and the living content of what He communicates, especially when this is applied to divine revelation in and through the Holy Scriptures. It rejects the fact that revelation must be continually given and received in a living relation with God ­ i.e., it substitutes a static for a dynamic view of revelation. ...The practical and the epistemological effect of a fundamentalism of this kind is to give an infallible Bible and a set of rigid evangelical beliefs primacy over God's self-revelation which is mediated to us through the Bible. This effect is only reinforced by the regular fundamentalist identification of biblical statements about the truth with the truth itself to which they refer. ...The living reality of God's self-revelation through Jesus Christ and in the Spirit is in point of fact made secondary to the Scriptures." (Thomas F. Torrance, Reality and Evangelical Theology. Westminster Press. 1981. pgs 16,17,18).

Thanks,
Pilgrim

 2012/1/12 12:51Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Pilgrim777,

I understand what you are saying. I believe it is you that is not understanding what the Lord is saying. I quote scripture to back it up. What about you?

John 1.

Pilgrim777. God WILL NOT speak against His word. If someone comes in and says that He will, that person should be corrected. Example.

The Bible states that women should not teach. Someone comes in and says "that is not true, women should teach. they didn't take into account the different centuries and politics of the day...", I would say, back it up Biblically.

If you cannot, it is not Biblical. Pretty easy.

*Edit* The Bible does state this fact, regardless of how loud someone screams against it.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/12 12:54Profile









 Re:

Umm... when did legalism enter into this? That has not been part of the discussion at all. Thats the battle cry whenever someone disagrees with someone else... we play the legalism card. Standing solidly on something is NOT legalism.

If it were... Christ would be a legalist.

Krispy

 2012/1/12 13:12
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Women should not teach!!!

Seems pretty clear to me. Don't even need any context or the Spirit of God for that one, do we? Or even the rest of the NT. Forgive me for not being "Biblical".

I will be sure to remind my sisters of that verse any time they try to share something with me that could be construed as "teaching".

Might you be a bit dogmatic?

Have you read Romans 16, lately? Seems that sister Junia may have been an Apostle. At the least, she was teaching.

Here are some scriptures for you.

Women serving in the early church
1. Met with disciples in prayer - Acts 1:14
2. Regarded as fellow-ministers - Rom. 16:3,6,12
3. Lydia, in ministry of hospitality - Acts 16:13-15
4. Dorcas, in charitable ministry - Acts 9:36,39,41
5. Philip’s daughters, as prophetesses - Acts 21:9
6. Priscilla, as a teacher - Acts 18:2,18,26
7. Phoebe, as a deaconess - Rom. 16:1
8. Junia, as an apostle? - Rom. 16:7


"The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His Presence, may taste and know the inner sweetness of the very God Himself in the core and center of their hearts." (A. W. Tozer, The Pursuit of God. Christian Publications. 1948. pg. 10).

Pilgrim

 2012/1/12 13:15Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
*Edit* The Bible does state this fact, regardless of how loud someone screams against it.



You speak of context, yet you proof-text different verses in the bible to get to your stance. Take the entirty of scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, dealing with the order of the household, men and women, and our different places... Then come back and begin to teach.

Great quote by A.W. Tozer. I wonder what his views are on the subject of women teaching?


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/12 13:20Profile









 Re:

..and all of your examples of women as teachers, there is no scriptural evidence that any of them taught men within the context of the organized local church.

Scripture clearly states that women should not teach men in the CHURCH.

Even your mocking declaration "WOMEN SHOULD NOT TEACH!" is incorrect because older women are encouraged to TEACH the younger women, and women are encouraged to teach their chidlren.

In scripture women are ENCOURAGED to teach! They are restricted from teaching men or pastoring churches and from being elders. That is plainly clear, there is no other possible interpretation.

Either that or Paul was wrong and scripture is incorrect.

Context is not important tho when one holds a low view of scripture to begin with.

This is the exact same fight that Spurgeon fought over 100 years ago. It was called "The Downgrade Controversy"... the downgrading of scripture. He fought it then, and here we are fighting it now.

Krispy

 2012/1/12 13:33





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