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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Cult of Biblicism

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Is the Bible the true Word of God, inerrant?


I know, Miccah that this question is not directed to me, but it raises this question:

How do you define “inerrant”? And how does your definition reconcile with the following argument:

Quote:
If there were a single error, that would prove it is not the Word of God, since God doesn’t make mistakes. If we don’t want to believe the Bible, then it is easy enough to list all the contradictions … discrepancies …., misattributions …. and apparent misinterpretations …



Of course, this is not referring to translations, but to early manuscripts.

It is a challenge, isn’t it, to avoid using the word “inerrant” in a way that merely proves the position of the “other side”.


Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/12 22:13Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Diane.

It is an easy enough question. Either it is real, or it is not. I am not speaking about typos. I am talking about basics in the Bible, for example.

When Jesus says that before Abraham, I am. Is this truth? Is this up for interpretation? Or do we rely on what was written?

You see where this is going. Soon we start to pick and choose what we want to believe in. We start to agree and disagree with certain aspects of the Word, what ever does or does not fit a theology. Instead of believing what was written from the Lord.


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Christiaan

 2012/1/12 23:09Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Robert, great post! I find it helpful to see how modern evangelicals have hijacked the term sola scriptura. It also explains why a bible study with a group of evangelicals so easily gets overrun with individual interpretations and applications.

Quote:
… the position of most evangelicals today … says that all we need is the Bible. If we just look to Scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us, we will find the truth.

Look how often we read these words on this website!

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He points out the results of this; thousands of denominations claiming mutually exclusive things;

All backed by Biblical authority!

Quote:
ultimately it leads to autonomy.


This sounds like the proverbial bite from the fruit in the Garden of Eden.

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Whenever we speak of Scripture, we are necessarily speaking of someone's interpretation of Scripture.


Yet to each person, their own interpretation looks like the real thing.

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So if I say that the only authority in my life is the Word of God, what I am really saying is that the only authority in my life is myself and how I choose to interpret the Word of God.


This is always the problem with the “other” guy!

Quote:
Each one of us is easily deceived by ourselves,


We make ourselves especially prone to deceit when we can’t distinguish our INTERPRETATION of Scripture from Scriptural authority itself.

But to tell everyone to just follow the Spirit - well – that is even more susceptible to individualism!

Quote:
The Protestant version leads to autonomy of the individual, while the Catholic and Orthodox version leads to autonomy of the church.


I’ve noticed a shift towards Catholicism for this reason. People are sick and tired of the divisiveness seen in Protestantism – and they blame it on their individualistic approach to the faith. I see this more clearly now.

A thought: It’s amazing how “effectively” we have fueled the cause of our opponents. Oh - if we could stop defending our rightness long enough to LISTEN to them - we might discover our blind spots!


Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/12 23:38Profile









 Re:

Rev 19:12-15 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation,
and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong,
and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


Seems we're coming close to throwing out our defense against the enemy.

GOD created all things by The Word and Jesus used only The Word to drive off Satan's temptations.

The sword of The Spirit is The Word of GOD.

Makes sense that there would be attempts to water down His Word in these days when we'll probably need that same sword that comes out of His Mouth to defeat His and our enemy more than ever.

He washes us by the cleansing of the Word as well.

Most Christians are seeing this attack on The Word as the apostasy.

How are we going to be strengthened if we continue to water down His Word?

The enemy would love to see us throw our Sword of defense down.

 2012/1/12 23:40
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen Jesus-is-GOD!


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Oracio

 2012/1/13 0:20Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Over the years I have seen this belittling of God's Word come from the emergent church movement and many in the house church movement, and there has been a meshing of the two movements. Much of their theology is similar to new age and heretical mysticism, very subjective.

Much that is involved in those movements is a reaction to all the corruption seen in many churches over the years. They are fed up with all the corruption, so they have invented their own theories about Christianity, much of which contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible.

Like the old saying goes, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. That's what many emergents and house churchers(not all) have done. They have thrown out sound doctrine along with the corruption they've seen.


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Oracio

 2012/1/13 2:06Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

that was a good read robert ,,it realy shows also the ignorance of some people who use the term solar scripture
and it shows how the reformers are being misrepersented by many

i use the word ignorance in abibilcal not spitfully way ,becasue i know iam ignorent in many things

the idea that all we have to do is pray and god will give me full understanding of scripture i need no elders or teachers as the bible states are given to the church for teaching and edafication ,,,and i can have the same revalation as the writers of the bible all i need is trhe holy spirit ,,is the reason why we have all these vairous strange and wide interpretation in the churches ,,,,and the brothers and sisters who hold this view ,,point the finger at others and say that solar scripture is the problem ,,,,,this in reality is like popery ,,esteaming men and there interpataion above the body of elders and even aboveor on the same level as the apostals

i believe this is defenitly pride in action ,,flesh ,,

that is not to say that many that do this are not partakers of the spirt of god

it seems that these brothers and sisters practice there own form of sola scripture ,what saith scripture

may god cause this shisim in the body it be heald
so that his name may not be blasphemed umong the gentiles because of this

 2012/1/13 5:17Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

to say we dont need the letters of paul and such as one of our brethern said here ,,is a total false notion

the bible doesnt teach that ,,,paull comanded that his letter be read to the the church at clossie,and that they also read the letter from laodicea,,verse 16 shows this ,,he spoke forth the athortative word from the lord in his letters ,,petter said ,that some people twist is letters wich are hard to understand just as they do THE REST of scripture ,,,,,,,peter saw the athority in the words that were writtern by his brother paul

paull had the athority givern by the holy spirit to record what was seen as holy scripture ,,,and it was recorded for the church to make wise unto salvation ,for reproving and corection ,,, just as THE REST of scriture is god brethed so is pauls writtings ,,,paul wrote to timothy reveling the true intention of the writtern word of god

it can not be said that we dont need this ,with out dening scripture ,,,,we shal not go passed what is writtern ,as it is writtern ,,,,,nor will we add or take away from the prophetic word of god ,with out being found in sin ,,that is cleary taught in scripture

lets us brothers and sisters thank god through his santifing spirit ,for these words he has givern us

and not be high minded ,but in fear and trembling
and pray that gods spirit will led us to full maturity
and let us believe in the gosple ,,the good news
and believe that we will press on towrds the mark of the high calling of jesus christ ,,,to the perfect man to the fullness of jesus christ ,,that we will no longer tossed to and frow ,and carried about by every wind of doctrine ,by the crafteness of man,,,,

but that let us know the neither hight not debth nor any other created thing will be able to seperat us from the love of god which is in jesus christ

 2012/1/13 5:56Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

//Over the years I have seen this belittling of God's Word come from the emergent church movement and many in the house church movement, and there has been a meshing of the two movements. Much of their theology is similar to new age and heretical mysticism, very subjective.//

But the main point here is that Sola Scriptura is no safeguard against subjectivism, because people make the Bible say whatever they want it to say. And ironically, biblicists do more violence to the Holy Scriptures than anyone else.

For example, there is an expository gimmick that I call the Sarcasm Shuffle. When guys like David Cloud and John MacArthur come across a scripture that flatly contradicts their doctrine, they insist that the writer is employing "sarcasm."

Isn't that a neat trick? Sarcasm: saying the opposite of what you mean. If a baseball player makes a bad throw, a heckler says, "Nice toss, dude!" And he is being sarcastic, you see.

So if you find a Bible verse that says the opposite of what you want it to say, simply assume that the writer is being sarcastic!

As another example, fundamentalists want the Bible to say that God withdrew the charismatic gifts of the Spirit at the end of the Apostolic Age, because they hate charismatics, so they mangle 1 Corinthians 13:8 and come up with an interpretation that no sane expositor would ever find in the text.

It is the Cult of Sola Scriptura that "belittles" the Word of God more than anyone else. As Spurgeon said, "The Bible suffers more from its exponents than its opponents."


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Wayne Kraus

 2012/1/13 6:23Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Qoute:

"It is not that "we can make an idol of the Bible" - we *have* made and idol out of the Bible and bibliolatry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Granted, it has lost market share to the Osteens and Warrens, but I don't represent them either..."


This is the outcome of fundamentalism who over-emphasize fundamental doctrines to the neglect of heart felt experience of Christ.

On the other side you have evangelicals, who overemphasis experiential or subjective experience of Christ to the neglect of sound doctrine.

The first leads to shallow suffocating "orthodoxy" and the second one to subjectivsm,fanatism or mystism.

Balance is what we lack. We need to abide in Jesus and as well as his words remain in us. We need to be filled with the Spirit and at the same time let the word of Christ dwell richly in us.

We have created this false dichotomy of Word and Spirit, of mind and heart, of faith and good works, of justification and sanctification, of salvation and lordship, of grace and rewards, of conversion and discipleship.




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Redi

 2012/1/13 7:43Profile





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