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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

True statement Sree. Only traditions and commandments of men (which nullify the word) rob men of their freedom.

If the Bible will make you free, you will be free indeed.

Sorry, I mean, if the SON shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

We all know how men have used the Bible to put people in bondage to them.

The Bible only restricts freedom in Jesus as it is manipulated by men. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life (and it gives the letter life).

Jesus did not say, after I go away, I will leave you a really cool book with cool dogmas, rules, ethics and morality and you will be able to follow me if you follow and understand everything in this book.

He did not say, "when I leave, I will make sure you have a book".

No, He said:

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I thank God with all my heart for the Bible, but I really thank God for His Holy Spirit. Because the Bible can be taken from and even outlawed but no one can take the Holy Spirit from me. And I thank God for the Holy Spirit because He protects me from men who may try to bring me into their bondage by the way they use the Bible. I think we all see much of that abuse, today.

Pilgrim

 2012/1/12 15:20Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
We all know how men have used the Bible to put people in bondage to them.



The Word according to Jesus, or the Word according to Pilgrim777... Calling the Word bondage... FOOLISHNESS.

I choose the Lord. Your final authority is yourself.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/12 15:31Profile









 Re:

"Yes, the Spirit will lead us into all truth. Yes, His sheep hear His voice. This is true. But He does so in conjunction with His written and preserved word..."

Whoa, back up there pardner. There are a lot of things that Paul wrote about that is not found in the Old Testament, what he received came by revelation. We accept what he says by faith not knowing anything about him.

We never met Paul, there is no historical records outside the bible that he ever existed, but we accept his testimony and we accept what he said to be truth and yet, there are a lot of writings that he wrote that is not in the Old Testament.

I accept what he says because my spirit bears record with his spirit that bears record with God's Spirit that what he hath said is from God.

Now brother if you were back in Paul's day, your words would be sounded in the ears of the church that what Paul was talking about was not in sync with the Old Testament.

In that time period you would have said, "Where is that in the bible Paul?".

I do understand your zeal for the Bible brother and I wouldn't want to take that away from you. I am enjoying this thread though.

 2012/1/12 16:00
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re: The Cult of Biblicism

Couldn't resist posting a brief reply here. Wayneman, with all due respect your OP was discouraging for me to read. It seems you promote a very low view of the Bible. Yet as others point out, all the prophets including our great Prophet Jesus Christ had a very high view of the holy Scriptures. You mentioned Satan quoting and misusing it, but you did not mention how Christ came right back and quoted it in proper context.

The bottom line is, there must be a proper balance when it comes to the Spirit and the Word. We cannot rightly divide and apply the Word without the Spirit. And we cannot fully know the Lord without the Word, whether read or heard.

God is very clear on how much He honors His Word(Ps.138:2). All throughout the Bible we see a very high honor placed on God's Word and we see that He honors those who honor it and take heed to it. Don't let the devil fool you. Just because he uses it for corruption doesn't mean you can't trust it.
That's exactly what he wants us to think. If we hold a low view of Scripture as believers we will be very weak spiritually.

Granted, I understand that some people can be very strong spiritually without having much access to the written Word for whatever reason or circumstance. God understands that. But if we have such access to it as we do we will be held accountable for how much we honor and take delight in it.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/1/12 16:10Profile









 Re: Bibliocentric vs Christocentric


Frank, wonderfully put.

I felt life just reading that. What an encouraging word.

 2012/1/12 16:17
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Miccah,

Did you just twist my words?

Pilgrim said:

Quote:
We all know how men have used the Bible to put people in bondage to them.



Miccah said:
Quote:
The Word according to Jesus, or the Word according to Pilgrim777... Calling the Word bondage... FOOLISHNESS.

I choose the Lord. Your final authority is yourself.



Did I say "Men have used the Bible to put people in bondage" or did I call "the Word "bondage" as you accuse?

The quotes are up above. Why are you making this about me? Is it fair to say that to someone ("your final authority is yourself") when you have a disagreement?

Pilgrim

 2012/1/12 16:21Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: The Cult of Biblicism

wayneman:

WOW! Where to begin?

First I think you are right in one respect. The written word, the Bible, and the living Word, Jesus, are not to be separated, nor can they be. Both are in total agreement.

There are many who have taken a totally intellectual approach to the Bible. This approach is carnal. Through their own carnal tradition they make the word of none effect. They heap doctrine upon doctrine all based on their own intellectual slant. Whole denominations are sometimes caught up in this. There is a form or a fashion for relationship often based on the strict adherence to a certain carnal interpretation but the quickening of the Holy Spirit is left out of the equation. I have become increasingly convinced that when someone speaks of having a proof text I can just about bet there is a fly in the soup of truth somewhere.

There are others who have exalted the subjective word of God be it through personal revelation, prophesying, dreams, visions, etc. above the written word of God, the Bible, which is to be our bedrock foundation. As a result great error and frankly flakiness results.

We cannot have the written word without the quickening of the Spirit and we need the written word as a foundation for the subjective. To go either direction from this combination of the two is to run into error.

The problem I see is that we are so quick to steer ourselves toward one ditch or another. The written word is inerrant. It is not a living document in that it is always developing and being amended. It is complete and there is no error in it. But it is to be interpreted and brought to life by its ultimate author.

It is hard for me to bring this out in words right now so let me use an example. I know that I am human and as such I have a mind that is prone to error. So I assume right up front that I do not always interpret scripture correctly. There is not a problem with the Bible but with me. However I am in communion with the Holy Spirit and pray about the word as I study it. I am also in relationship with other believers and we discuss the scripture. There are foundational doctrines that are so crystal clear and that I have lived out in my life that I know I have the basis of truth in these areas though some finer points might be off in my mind. There are other areas I am still praying about and studying that I may or may not ever settle on totally. But I do not question the veracity of scripture or the inerrency. I do not abandon the scripture for the sake of a "special revelation" even if it be from what appears to be an angel. However I also do not say that God does not speak by anything other than scripture. He does indeed speak to our hearts, through dreams, visions, prophesies, etc. I receive these things as long as they do not violate the written word, for that is my foundation.






_________________
Travis

 2012/1/12 16:35Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Oh, I might also add this. Recall that in John 1 we find that Jesus has been the Word of God from the beginning. There is much scripture likening the written word to a seed. However isn't it interesting that when Mary received the spoken word of the Lord a seed was planted in her which when He was born was the very seed that was prophesied to Abraham.


_________________
Travis

 2012/1/12 16:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
"Yes, the Spirit will lead us into all truth. Yes, His sheep hear His voice. This is true. But He does so in conjunction with His written and preserved word..."

Whoa, back up there pardner. There are a lot of things that Paul wrote about that is not found in the Old Testament, what he received came by revelation. We accept what he says by faith not knowing anything about him.

We never met Paul, there is no historical records outside the bible that he ever existed, but we accept his testimony and we accept what he said to be truth and yet, there are a lot of writings that he wrote that is not in the Old Testament.

I accept what he says because my spirit bears record with his spirit that bears record with God's Spirit that what he hath said is from God.

Now brother if you were back in Paul's day, your words would be sounded in the ears of the church that what Paul was talking about was not in sync with the Old Testament.

In that time period you would have said, "Where is that in the bible Paul?".

I do understand your zeal for the Bible brother and I wouldn't want to take that away from you. I am enjoying this thread though.



What? I'm completely lost on this now....

Krispy

 2012/1/12 16:38
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Whoa, back up there pardner. There are a lot of things that Paul wrote about that is not found in the Old Testament, what he received came by revelation. We accept what he says by faith not knowing anything about him.




Approved: I think it would be interesting to you to study all of the times that Paul referenced the OT in his teachings. Yes he did receive revelation but that revelation was in total agreement with the teachings of the OT. The OT teaches the coming of the New Covenant and the accompanying righteousness by grace through faith.


_________________
Travis

 2012/1/12 16:43Profile





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