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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : An omniscient God foresees Christ yet establishes law 'forever'

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Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

theEphah, so unless I quote scripture then I'm silenced?

"The last time I checked, forever meant forever," did you really check or is that sarcasm? Can you give some scripture on that?

"you're advocating the pre-existence theory..." yeah, Jesus is eternal. Are you saying the Son of God wasn't given?

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain -from the creation of the world-. -Rev 13:8

So since He was slain from the creation of the world, it is safe to say that the Law is a shadow of things to come, which have now passed, we now live by the Spirit or we are dead in our sins.


_________________
Bryan Reed

 2012/1/10 3:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
so unless I quote scripture then I'm silenced?



That's not what I said nor implied, what I'm suggesting is we back up our debate with scripture, in so doing we can differentiate between fact and fiction.

 2012/1/10 9:13









 Re: An omniscient God foresees Christ yet establishes law 'forever'

Romans 7:4
Many cite this scripture to prove that the Law of God is no longer in effect. It is important to note that Paul stated, “You…are become dead” (Romans 7:4, Old King James Version). He did not say, “The Law is dead.” Christ’s sacrifice did not do away with God’s Law. Rather, by the acceptance of His sacrifice (repentance—leading to baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit) as the payment of the death penalty for their sins, the people had become dead to the Law

Here is another deception: Romans 10:4

Quote:
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.



Lets examine the word "END" Strong's Greek: 5056. τέλος (telos) which means (the end-goal, purpose, the ultimate result)

So Romans 10:4 is saying:
Christ is the ULTIMATE RESULT OF THE LAW so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


Additional Proof Malachi 4 - Speeking of the coming Judgment

Quote:
Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.

2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves.

3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.

Verse 4 - REMEMBER THE LAW OF MY SERVANT MOSES, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel




On that dreadful day (future time) when he will burn the wicked, he also asked you on that day to remeber who? THE LAW OF MY SERVANT MOSES

Don't be deceived, Only believe all that the prophets have spoken .

 2012/1/10 13:14
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Theephah:

Simple question; Do you believe that keeping the perfect and righteous Law of God will save you and keep you saved?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/1/10 15:06Profile
Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

Friend I understand what you mean. However, this is something many people do and you know what? You are taking away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is GOOD NEWS, not bad news. God doesn't need you to dampen the Good News with threats of not keeping the Law. A child can understand that Jesus died for them and if they will respond to that, He will save them. God can do a much better job with conviction, through the writting of the Law on mans heart, and through the Holy Spirit then any of us.

Beware, if you intend on calling Jesus's bride wicked or a whore. I'm not going to stand by and let you speak to my wife in this manner, how much more is Jesus going to repay those who not only try to put His bride back under the weak law but also defame her with name calling and backbiting.

We have already, everyone of us, broken the Law. Period. That means death however Jesus died for you and me. He took that punishment we must put our trust in Him and believe that He did. When you recieve the Holy Spirit and have a firm grasp on what He did for you and me then you are not going to have to think of what you can and can't do but you will only want to please Him and walk in unity with Him. The Law is on our hearts!


_________________
Bryan Reed

 2012/1/10 15:59Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Att. Jimmy

ginnyrose wrote:

Quote:

I have been told the term 'forever' refers to a long time. The term 'forever and ever' means indefinitely. Jimmy, you are a Bible scholar, what do you say?



Context, context, context. It depends. Sometimes "forever" is used as a hyperbolic literary device. Sometimes it is used as an indefinite period of time. Much as the word "day" can refer to an unspecified period of time, or a definite 24 hour period. Again, context is king.

There is a very striking image in the Old Testament that I think speaks to this issue of "fulfillment," and corresponds to what Christ has done in regard to "fulfilling" the Law. Under the old covenant, the Levitical priesthood was appointed to carry around the ark of the covenant. It was one of their primary ministerial functions, as the ark of the covenant resided in the Tabernacle, and was always "on the go." They had been charged to do this ministry, "forever."

However, the time came in which the pop-up portable Tabernacle was replaced with the immovable Temple building which was set in stone. When the Temple replaced the Tabernacle, the official function of the Levitical priesthood in regard to their sacred duty to be transporters of the ark of the covenant came to an end. The law that dictated they carry out this ministry function was still "on the books" so to say. But their ministry as the ark bearers had come to an end, because the erecting of the Temple structure "fulfilled" their duties, for something greater than the Tabernacle had come into being. The priests no longer had to carry the ark of the covenant, because the ark had finally come to a rest.

In the same way, Jesus Christ has fulfilled the requirements of the Law. For as he said, something greater than Solomon (and all that he represented) was now here. Christ fulfilled all the demands of the Law. And although all those laws are still "on the books," we are no longer obligated to them, because something greater than the Tabernacle has come. And as the Temple gave the ark of the covenant rest, so Christ has given us rest.

Therefore, let it be said that people who trouble you with keeping the laws of the Old Covenant, be it in tithing, circumcision, dietary restrictions, sabbath keeping, etc., while often sincere, are sincerely wrong in their perspectives. They have yet to have a revelation of the significance of the work of Christ on the cross, and what the New Covenvant represents. It is no wonder the apostle Paul was "troubled" by individuals, whether Jew or Greek, who insisted on observing the Old Covenant laws. For they have yet to see all 613 of those laws are "forever" fulfilled by Christ. Many of them have yet to realize that Christ has "kept" the law perfectly for them. And in His keeping of the law, we have kept it in full through Him.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2012/1/10 16:11Profile









 Re:

Christinyou -

Quote:
Simple question; Do you believe that keeping the perfect and righteous Law of God will save you and keep you saved?



It's the only way! Deception is a choice. Choose life.

 2012/1/10 16:23









 Re:

- Lovefirst - the Gospel isn't what you want it to be.

Deception is a choice. Choose life.

 2012/1/10 16:28
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Even should you keep the commandments 100% without flaw for the rest of the days of your life, this will by no means earn or otherwise secure and allow you to continue on in your salvation. It comes through trusting in "the obedience of the One" (Romans 5:19) that we are and stay saved.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2012/1/10 16:39Profile









 Re:

--KingJimmy--

Quote:
Even should you keep the commandments 100% without flaw for the rest of the days of your life, this will by no means earn or otherwise secure and allow you to continue on in your salvation. It through trusting in "the obedience of the One" (Romans 5:19) that we are and stay saved.



Obedience to what? How do you show obedience friend?
Matthew 19:17 "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

How you feel is not going to get you saved.

 2012/1/10 16:56





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