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LoveGodsWay2
Member



Joined: 2008/10/9
Posts: 143
Ohio, USA

 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

This is a teaching of Joseph Prince.

 2012/1/12 12:30Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
it seems to me that SI has gone to seed. It is NOT the forum it used to be where the WORD of God was held as the final authority and respected in issues of life.

Yes, I am sick, really sick...makes me cry.



You are correct ginnyrose. I too feel and see it. What a falling away it has become...


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Christiaan

 2012/1/12 12:44Profile
wombat1
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Joined: 2010/12/1
Posts: 65
Melbourne

 Re:

Hi Guys, my post was to bring attention and a battle cry against this heretical teaching. I understand that there must be people from all over christendom on this site however to encourage you there is not another place where I have found like support.

Not sure what it is like in the states and other places however this is the closest thing to home that I have at the moment and really appreciate it.

Maybe I should have started the post with my support for SI. Thanks for your responses.God Bless Oskar


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Oskar Abley

 2012/1/13 2:14Profile
wombat1
Member



Joined: 2010/12/1
Posts: 65
Melbourne

 Re:

"The word being the final authority", just seeing that in print is such a refreshing thought. Thank you and God Bless. Oskar


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Oskar Abley

 2012/1/13 2:22Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

"You are not the only one...it seems to me that SI has gone to seed. It is NOT the forum it used to be where the WORD of God was held as the final authority and respected in issues of life. "

Signs of the end times if anything, and it's going to get worse. Those who believe the full counsel of God are going to be viewed one day as the "bad guys" and the "overly religious folk who just need to get with the 'new program'", while the "experiential believers" usher the seat of Antichrist right in, the whole time thinking they're doing God a favor. Just like Christ said they would.

Just like during His first coming, before His second you'll have the ones who should know better as your foremost persecutors.

 2012/1/13 5:09Profile
JoanM
Member



Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.


I actually have heard brothers and sisters emphasize this and deflect the Truth in this direction. I did not think it was an actual teaching. I thought it rather a function (remnant), of the double-minded, sin nature or immaturity (or some such).

Scripture floods my mind.


This belongs in a message on WHY REVIVAL TARRIES.

This may also contribute to the lack of THE FEAR OF GOD

 2012/1/13 8:45Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

The war is in our minds. Sin begins its death march when our minds are carried by our own lust, and gives birth to sin and death.

God has povided for this by giving us the Mind of Christ, and the Holy Spirit to bring all that Jesus said to the renewing of our minds, this by itself convicts of sin.

Law and Grace "don't mix"? They must or we will never understand how to be perfect in Christ. If Grace is the unmerited favour given to us by the birth of Jesus Christ in us by the incorruptable Seed of the Father, that sets us free from the Law, then Grace must in recipracal strength give us the power to make Gods Law perfect in us. If we are no longer under the curse of the Law, but we must obey Its commands to make us perfect in Christ, then Grace must be able to accomplish this perfection in the Law present in our lives by the Perfect fulfillment of the Law which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Grace to keep the Law.

I believe that God has accomplished Pure Grace and Pure Law by His fulfillment of pure Law on the Cross and the Blood of Jesus Christs atonement. I now have the freedom of the curse of the Law, but the power of Grace makes it possible for me to keep the Law perfect also, which is in Christ by the Holy Spirit. This is how Paul says we can present every man perfect in Christ by His working which works in us mightily. So Grace and Law do mix, but not to make one or the other our perfection. Grace to be free from the curse of the Law and a New Nature, "A new creation in Christ Jesus", that we can accomplish the righteousness of the Law by His working in us, that power given by the Holy Spirit that works in our minds renewing process. That is why, if we sin, we can confess our sin and that is why God is faithful and JUST to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, which is in The Cross of Christ by the Grace of God. Think about it; faithful, just and cleansing, WoW

To this point in my growing up into Christ, so far as it is revealed to me, I must see both sides of Grace, one unto no condemnation the other unto keeping His Commandments, of which some are specifically not for the believer, but for Israel only. We must see, we cannot accomplish the whole Law as was given to Moses, but we now have the Grace to keep that Law that pertains to us now, "My Commandments".

The Holy Spirit is the One that sorts it all out in our lives by conviction of sin that we might be set free and receive no condemnation, but also repent in the conviction of our minds to sin in our lives.

Like Paul, I have not obtained it yet, but I press on toward the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus who has set me Free, in Him Free Indeed.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/1/13 15:17Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re: What Law Are You Under - The Laws of Jesus Christ ot The Laws of Moses

[quote} Matthew wrote: ""I was recently at a large Pentecostal church where the speaker said that the holy spirit only convicts us of sin before we are saved, however after we are saved we are only convicted of our righteousness."




Wombat and Matthew, telling us what a particular speaker at a particular Church believes in a discussion about what he conceives what the Holy Spirit does or does not convict has no bearing on what set of Laws we Christians are under, such argument is a Red Herring type Sophistry.

I do not agree with that speaker based upon what you quoted him to have said. But what he said has nothing to do with what set of Laws we are under.

I am dead to the Mosaic Law, and I thank God that HE annihilated the Mosaic Law as per Zechariah 11: 7-13, upon Jesus death.

The question we are discussing is:

Are we under the Mosaic Covenant (Covenant means 'Contract'), or are we under the Laws of Moses, or are we under the Laws of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not sent by God the Father to be our cheerleader for keeping the Mosaic Law. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant in our place. And Jesus took upon Himself the penalties we deserved for Breaking the Mosaic Laws.

The Scriptures are very clear about this:

Heb 7:11-22

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. NASU


The words in the Bible mean something people, when taken in proper context. Please note Hebrews 7:12.

And it will do you no good to pick and choose what part of the Mosaic Law you wish to keep, such as the Ten Commandments, on what basis are you discarding the other 603 Mosaic Laws. Did Jesus keep the the other 603 Laws for you.

What are you thinking. You are rejecting the salvation that Jesus won for us on the cross, God's gift to us who are saved through the Finished work on the cross on our behalf, we who have faith in what Jesus accomplished for us, for we who actually believe God.

And anyone raising 'Antinomianism (No Law)' is deceiving such people are trying to steal away your liberty and what God has already accomplished for you, if indeed you believe Him and His WORD.

The Catholic Church created this false argument against Luther and others to undermine their preaching salvation by Faith in Jesus Finished work on the cross, rather than the RCC's salvation through Sacraments, Luther (and others) correctly argued that we are not under the Mosaic Law.

Christians are not Lawless, We are under the Laws of Jesus Christ.

1. The Royal Law of Love. Love God with all your Heart, Mind, and Strength, and your neighbor as yourself. And we all ought to know who our neighbors are, Jesus, in His telling of the Good Samaritan Jesus reveals who truly is a neighbor, we are to be that neighbor, the Samaritan is the GOOD SAMARITAN because he saved the life of a man who hated and despised him, we are to be that neighbor. That is unconditional Love.

2. The Law of Liberty: Mercy Triumphs over Judgement, forgive and you shall be forgiven, give good things to those who can not give to you, bless those who curse you, Judgement will be merciless to those who show no mercy, Measure for measure - as you measure unto others, so shall you be measured by your own standard.

3. The Law of the Spirit Of Life in Christ, walk with God daily and 'God in me' - The Holy Spirit will transform your very nature via our daily walk with God, and pray for us even with prayers we often do not realize we need to pray.

These 3 Laws are Perfect. They put all things into proper perspective. In a sense, these three laws of Jesus Christ is very balanced, they are positive Laws, Laws that transform us. Laws through which we live by faith. Laws by which God keeps us.

If God is for us, who can be against us. By the Laws of Jesus Christ we enter into daily fellowship with God, and by them God keeps us and performs His work in us.

Therefore there is no condemnation for us Christians...

Ro 8:1-5

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NASU

It's good to read all of Chapters of Romans.









_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/1/16 6:49Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

Art,

The issue 'Wombat' raised was not regarding the differences between the Old and New Covenants. He was addressing an error that a preacher made; the error that a born again Christian will not be convicted by the Holy Spirit when he sins.

There is simply no support for this in the New Testament as a number of passages calling on Believers to repent, flee from sin, put off sin, etc. will attest.


_________________
Matthew

 2012/1/17 9:05Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1043


 Re:

Ginny Rose,
I do appreciate some sound and stable posts here.
I am glad you brought this subject up..isn't ..it is so very Needed ?
I find on the forum now,more and more teachings like you are talking about,
where we can just live any kind of way,..and I'm on the Right Road / Path.
But what about,'the path being narrow,...and few there be that FIND it ?
And like mjoan, says,..where is the Real fear of God ?Some are not even
afraid to make a mock of God' Word,..and there is a throwing in of subjects
being brought up,..that might cause a weak bro / sis to come to unbelief in the Lord / Word.(Satan has come to steal)
And this brother on this post, I appreciate him, he is talking about Grace,..which some have made a shamble out of. Grace is precious gift from God, drawing us to Himself,...if we do not shun this Grace,that He ministers to us.
* (1) It is the Devine influence upon the heart, and (2) it's reflection in the life.
(1) the hearing / drawing of the Word, to Him,..His will / way.
(2) the doing of the Word,( that we be doers of the Word and not
hearers Only.

I believe there have been a distortion of words,..God who made words
in the very beginning of time. Would Satan try to put his hand into the things of the Lord to distort ? We can readily see he has tried to distort
The word 'church' to mean,'a building'.... Would it be past his way to distort
other words to deceive many to sweep them into hell ?
Would this not be a way for him to win a major victory ?
There are one's that believe / think they are right,..and will say to the Lord,on that day,"Lord,Lord,( and they think it not important to allow Him to
reign / rule / be their King,in their lives ) and He will say unto them,'Why call Me Lord,Lord,and do not what I say. ...( being'led by the Spirit of God)

Proverbs says, there is a way, that seemeth Right unto a man, but the Ways thereof are the Ways of death. ( and not life )
Jn. ....Jesus said, " I am the WAY,...He preached the WAY,through the Truth / Word in order that we may have Life..and through His precious Blood and Spirit,an intrance has been made for us to walk.

I am not meaning to be harsh here, but in loving ness.
Bless you all,
Elizabeth






 2012/1/17 10:45Profile





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