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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

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wombat1
Member



Joined: 2010/12/1
Posts: 65
Melbourne

 No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

Hi Guys,

I would like some comment on the above statement and some further insight on this particular statement and where it has come from.

I was recently at a large Pentecostal church where the speaker said that the holy spirit only convicts us of sin before we are saved, however after we are saved we are only convicted of our righteousness. His intent was to say that we should not be condemed by our sin, which is the work of our enemy however he is thoughing out conviction as well.

He also said if your are not living a life that is righteous and are having problems with sin, it does not matter because God sees you as perfect anyway and it only means that you are not recieving all that you could.

To put this into context, the church has come from a strong Pentecostal properity background, notice the focus on "recieving". His assistant pastor the following week made the statement in keeping with the pastors teaching. "God only sees your destiny"

I sent him an email requesting we chat stating that if sin is of no matter in the the new testament then we would need to tear out most of Pauls letters as most of them had warnings and instruction about sin in the church.

His response was to graciously let me know he is willing to unpack John 16: 8-11 for me (to understand conviction of sin before and righteousness after?). Obviously there is no support for this in context or even infered.

I would greatly appreciate some information on the erroneous use of this text and where it has come from as I wish to assist this guy to see the problem with the Disney or soft gospel. i am aware of the Once saved always saved teaching, however this is taking things to a whole new level.

This is, I believe, the spirit of antichrist in the Church which is drawing souls into the false church or in fear of sounding melodramatic, the whore of babylon. If this is in fact so then a clear and loud call to battle I believe is needed, in another post I will tell you more about a documentary I wish to do to expose it, but with your prayful advice and guidance as I wish to work with others of a similar mind.

Hope you all had a great new year.

Regards Oskar


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Oskar Abley

 2012/1/7 16:32Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

QUOTE:
"No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation."

Never heard of it.

My first reaction after reading it was "LORD! have mercy!" and I mean it.

Wonder what the next absurd doctrine will be?

It seems as though the devil is working a fine job in perverting Believers - he doesn't even have to resort to persecution to get rid of 'em.

"Lord, have mercy!"


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Sandra Miller

 2012/1/7 17:08Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: conviction

Groan!

Most people believe nonsense, and I say that looking in a mirror! Think about what you believe to be true, then think about the percentage of people in this world who agree with you. For most of us- probably way less than 1%!

This is a little off track, but I believe the church is best served when there is a cadre of mature men (and probably women) who share in the teaching responsibilities. The above mentioned pulpit blather should be confronted as heresy or just stupid, as it has not been thought through or subjected to a legitimate study of the word. Also it makes no sense!

But is there anyone in that church to make a challenge? Probably not.

Just like we're doing here, challenge your pastor when his teaching strays. He needs it, and the people need it.

When I teach, I like to introduce whatever I have with the invitation that if you the hearer (reader) feel that I have missed the letter and spirit of the Word, please let me know.

As Paul said, we destroy arguments and any proud obstacle that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ.

Be iron, and sharpen other people's iron. And when you hear truth better than what you currently believe, grab hold of it!


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Tom Cameron

 2012/1/7 19:25Profile









 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

Well...hmm...

"He also said if your are not living a life that is righteous and are having problems with sin, it does not matter because God sees you as perfect anyway and it only means that you are not receiving all that you could."

This is one of those statements that has a half truth in it.

It's a tricky subject, one that I am not willing to go into at this hour of the night. Maybe I'll tackle it tomorrow.

 2012/1/7 21:35
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.


You need to pray for him and ask God to open his eyes to his own sin. Obviously this man has sin in his life he is trying to preach around.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2012/1/8 7:35Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

Quote:

This is, I believe, the spirit of antichrist in the Church which is drawing souls into the false church or in fear of sounding melodramatic, the whore of babylon. If this is in fact so then a clear and loud call to battle I believe is needed, in another post I will tell you more about a documentary I wish to do to expose it, but with your prayful advice and guidance as I wish to work with others of a similar mind.



Brother there are posters in SI who believe in such teachings, that God is going to look into Jesus instead of looking into us so we do not need to worry about our sinful life. They even believe the teachings of Jesus is OT and in NT we do not need to follow it. This is a lie. In recent times God has put so much burden in my heart against such teachings, though i have not heard it from any church, I have read it here in SI, it really hurts me. I have spent few sleepless hours thinking about this deception.
I believe it is a problem with people extending God's promise and they think they are doing right by extending it. This is not faith, faith is to believe in what God has promised for you and not to extend his promise beyond what he has given.
We should not confuse this with 'once Saved is Saved for ever' theology, it is not the same. Though I am not a believer of this theology, I have a respect for it, but I have zero respect for this, 'I am already made perfect in Jesus so I can live as I want' theology.

I am willing to help you in anyway I can to fight against this growing evil. I feel we have a common burden.


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Sreeram

 2012/1/9 11:07Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """'I am already made perfect in Jesus so I can live as I want' theology."""

This is only a half truth, I am made perfect in Christ, by His Spirit that is my new birth. The living as I want is the untruth, and epitomy of the Devils lie, as always. I am perfect (((((IN CHRIST))))), but not in self, this is why I labour, striving according to His working in me. That is most certainly not living as always, in sin. "It does matter much." Not! What a price was paid, The Cross, not so I can live as always. The price that was paid to give us a new nature, the nature of God in Christ Jesus, does not allow for sin in the Life of Christ that is now in us. If Christ be in us, how can we make the purchased posessition a dwelling with sin, Let us be conformed to His Image, and strive to be perfect as He is perfect. Knowing there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. I don't want to sin, never, even in this body of flesh, I don't want to sin, but if I do, we have an advocate with the Father and 1 John 1:9 applies to cleans from all unrighteousness.

Yes I am perfect in Christ, but that does not give me permission to sin and not receive conviction and dicipline unto cleansing and new life in Christ, who loved me and gave Himself that I might be conformed to His Image, which most certainly is no provision, or permission to sin and get away with it.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/1/9 14:38Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: No need for conviction of sin AFTER salvation.

"I was recently at a large Pentecostal church where the speaker said that the holy spirit only convicts us of sin before we are saved, however after we are saved we are only convicted of our righteousness."

If you have a chance to speak with him, ask him why 5 of the 7 churches who received "letters" from the Lord in the Revelation are told to, "repent." These are clearly post-resurrection, Christian assemblies who were confronted for blatant sin.

2 Corinthians 7 is another important passage on the subject of Christians experiencing coviction of sin and their subsequent repentance.

Grace and peace,
Matthew


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Matthew

 2012/1/12 7:10Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"They even believe the teachings of Jesus is OT and in NT we do not need to follow it. This is a lie. In recent times God has put so much burden in my heart against such teachings, though i have not heard it from any church, I have read it here in SI, it really hurts me. I have spent few sleepless hours thinking about this deception."

You are not the only one...it seems to me that SI has gone to seed. It is NOT the forum it used to be where the WORD of God was held as the final authority and respected in issues of life.

Yes, I am sick, really sick...makes me cry.


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Sandra Miller

 2012/1/12 10:03Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

This Doctrine falls on the other side of Legalism.. Antinomianism (No Law).. We must remember God's will is we be conformed to the Image to His Son Jesus.. God's will is our Sanctification..That We would grow in Grace and in the Spirit..
If the Holy Spirit lives in us guess what he wants to make us be? ... Holy ( according to the standard that God requires, not man)
Sanctification is a life long, hard work.. praise God, for his His Spirit.. Convicts me of Sin, empowers me to fight sin, and comforts me in my Battle, and seals us unitll our bodies are glorifed..
andy


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andy

 2012/1/12 10:56Profile





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