| Re: And then shall many be offended ...|
You raise a very important topic, Jesus-is-God
The word translated as offended in Matt 24:10 is:
skandalizo (skan-dal-id'-zo) ("scandalize"); from NT:4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
This Apostasy which is abounding in our world today, has its' roots in the 1830's, by a small cabal of powerful influential men, working secretly to undermine the Bible, and to replace it with Secular Humanism. They were very successful.
I have written extensively on the internet about this quite successful conspiracy to overthrow both the OT and NT.
Rather than post them all here, I will reference the URL's.
I posted on the Catholic On-Line Forum Under the name Arturo:
Read my posts:
My 1st Post Dated: 20 Jan 2009 10:50
My last post that thread is 06 Feb 2009 05:28
I will share the following from a different thread:
The Western world, once the bastion of Christianity, now find themselves in a post-Christian world. This is because the enemy has become our friend. The enemy that has caused this to happen is SCIENCE. I write this with much regret as I have always loved science, and in my youth I earned degrees in Physics, Math, and Electrical Engineering.
Science, as taught in schools today, is set upon a pedestal. Nearly all hold it in high regard and none ever thinks it a danger, and we give up our children to it freely. And after all, look what is has done for us. Television, airplanes, movies, games, high tech devices, advances in medicine, medical treatment, and fighting diseases.
Yet, it teaches something else that few are aware of or even think about. Science teaches that all we see, hear, feel, and observe occurred by chance effects. That God does not exist, or if He does exist, He is irrelevant. It teaches that God has no place in the education system, that all life and all non-life events have arisen by chance occurences. That all human beliefs have risen anthropologically, that belief in a god or many gods were merely the early efforts of humans to make sense out of a world they did not understand, and that this led to many supestitions that were taught to offspring as fact. That the spread of belief in one God in the 'Western' world was a chance event caused by a local monotheistic tribe of people who, by chance events, had taken over the Roman Empire and spreading their beliefs with force and promises of heavenly rewards, and earthly rewards, rewards both in this life and the next.
Because of the great advances, gadgets and conveniences science has brought into our lives, particulaly over the past century, we trust all science. So we give our children up to twenty years of Schooling at public institutions without a blink of the eye, and it is there that our children are learning that God does not exist and that all human beliefs and values are equivalent and man made. That man is the ultimate authority in the universe. If God does exist, then He is irrelevant, for we already know how humans and everything else came into existence by chance molecular events. That humans are the highest authorities that exist in our local portion of the universe. Even Parochial Schools teach the materialistic evolutionary theories as fact.
Charles Lyell, Author of the Theory of Uniformitarian Geology, founded this theory with the goal of overthrowing the then current widely held Biblical Geology of the great flood. His training was as a Lawyer, but upon graduation, he was filled with a passion to overthrow this Geology of the Bible. His aim was to remove God from having anything to do with the origin of the Earth and its' geological formations. In His encyclopedic "Principles of Uniformatarian Geology" Charles Lyell not only undermined the bible's geology, he also come very close to describing the slow evolution of life over long ages through natural selection. Some biographers even questioned why Lyell failed to come to the conclusions that Charles Darwin arrived at some thirty years later. The reason was quite simple, Lyell was overjoyed how his plot to overthrow Biblical geology was advancing and being accepted and feared that an attempt at this time (early 1830's) to remove God from being the author of life would jeopardize the growing acceptance of his alternate to Biblical geology.
Charles Lyell was Charles Darwin's mentor. Charle's Darwin confessed well after the wide acceptance of his theory that he never gave Lyell enough credit in the founding of his theory, that much of it came out of the mind of Lyell. It was Darwin's Theory that removed God from being the author of life, and Darwin very adamant about God having nothing to do with it. Charles Darwin believed Christianity to be a damnable and destable religion. Now his anti-God evolutionary views are taught as fact in public and Christian schools.
The successes of Lyell, Darwin and Thomas Huxley et. al. emboldened the anti-god materialistic crowd to take over our school systems. Since most teachers are educated in the public school Systems, many of them teach at parochial schools and pass on to their students the Secular Humanist ideas and beliefs that they were taught in their schooling as absolute facts.
Read also: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2001/365/
| 2012/1/8 16:10||Profile|
| Re: |
Art, Thank you so much for this piece that you've written. I need to show it to my Dad. He's not saved, claims to be an agnostic Catholic, his true religion is Science and is an evolutionist to the point of being an evangelist for that very strong view that he holds.
You may have given me a greater reply than you realized.
I see other reasons for the apostasy that we see with the Protestants of today, as I'm sure you do as well - but for my heart, you've done me well and I look forward to sharing this with Dad, and three agnostic scientist brothers as well. Oh my, just remembered them regarding what you've written. Sure could use prayer to reach them. GOD's love is all I can give them so this help you've given is appreciated so much.
The LORD Bless, keep and protect.
| 2012/1/8 22:32|
| Offended at what?|
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
From John Wesley's Explanatory Notes:
"Then shall many be offended - So as utterly to make shipwreck of faith and a pure conscience. But hold ye fast faith, Mat_24:11. in spite of false prophets: love, even when iniquity and offences abound, Mat_24:12. And hope, unto the end, Mat_24:13. He that does so, shall be snatched out of the burning. The love of many will wax cold - The generality of those who love God will (like the Church at Ephesus, Rev_2:4,) leave their first love."
| 2012/1/9 22:12|
| Offended at what?|
Albert Barnes Notes:
Many shall be offended - Many shall stumble, fall, apostatize from a profession of religion. Many who professed to love me will then show that they had no real attachment to me; and in those trying times it will be seen that they knew nothing of genuine Christian love.
Shall betray one another - Those who thus apostatize from professed attachment to me will betray others who really love me. This they would do to secure their own safety, by revealing the names, habitations, or places of concealment of others.
Shall hate one another - Not that real Christians would do this, but those who had professed to be such would then show that they were not his true followers, and would hate one another. Luke adds that they should be betrayed by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends, Luk_21:16. They would break over the most tender ties to surrender Christians to punishment. So great would be their hatred of Christianity, that it would overcome all the natural endearments of kindred and home. This, in the persecutions of Christians, has often occurred, and nothing shows more fully the deep and deadly hatred of the human heart to the gospel.
| 2012/1/9 22:14|
Lake Charles, LA
| Re: |
I'm very aggravated, I want to have more of my Christians friends time for prayer and fellowship, to spend time together seeking the Lord Jesus and "watching" with them. However it seems no one loves Him enough to put aside their own stuff to do it. Sometimes even quoting scripture to show what we should be doing seems as if I'm doing something wrong. I'm grieved over this and have been praying with my wife for some godly friends we could seek the Lord with. It is unreal at this time!
I guess this is the apostasy then?
| 2012/1/9 23:35||Profile|
| Re: |
You're not alone, Friend. Far from it. Since I moved two yrs ago, I haven't found fellowship neither, but I know that He is in control.
I do believe you got saved into the apostasy time and I do feel for you, but people have been saved [and will be] during times of severe persecution and yet they stayed faithful - Bless GOD! In fact, it only served to make them stronger in The LORD.
I believe that The LORD allows all things and wants me to be able to bear things completely alone at times. I've been through this before and these wilderness times just seem to make you more secure in Him and not merely feel secure when surrounded by others. It's easy for me to feel secure around my Christian friends, but when they drive to their homes in other States and I'm alone again - that's where the rubber meets the road between Him and me. That's when the enemy can come in like a flood and make us feel all sorts of alone or lonely. I want to get through like Richard Wurmbrand did, when they put him far underground in a dirt dungeon in solitary confinement. I want to be that strong in confidence in Him to endure that.
Who knows, if that's not why He allows these wilderness times so often in our lives. I do believe our generation will have to be the strongest generation of Saints that ever lived. Just my understanding of what's written.
But, you're here on SI and that's Good! Good testing grounds as well, but in different areas of our lives.
Bless GOD that you two are written in The Lamb's Book of Life. So happy for you both and we can pray for one another.
His Blessings to you both.
| 2012/1/10 0:08|
| Re: Offended at what?|
Quote: The love of many will wax cold - The generality of those who love God will (like the Church at Ephesus, Rev_2:4,) leave their first love."
Posted this article on another thread thought you might like to read it..
By George D. Watson
Many suppose that when Jesus told the Ephesian Church that He had somewhat against them, because they had left their first love, He referred to the love they had in their first conversion, as babes in Christ. But I have often felt that our Lord meant something more than that, and that the love He referred to was not "first" in the order of time, but "first" in the order of rank; meaning they had left the state of pure, ardent, perfect love. So, in examining the Greek, I find this impression of what should be meant by first love is confirmed.
There are two words in the Greek Testament for love; the one is philos, which signifies natural affection, and the other agape, which signifies divine love, which is the pure benevolence of the divine nature. There are also two words for "first"; one is mias which, as a general rule, signifies the first in time, and the other is protos which signifies, as a rule, first in rank. These words may not be used invariably in these senses, but that is the main tenor of their usage. And in that verse, Rev. 2:4, the Greek word is agape prote, that is, divine love of the first or highest rank.This is the sense in which we have utilized the Greek word protos in our language, as when we say "prototype," by which we mean a model type, or a pattern, conveying the idea of rank more than the idea of priority in time.Also, we say "proto martyr," by which we mean not only the first martyr in time, but a model martyr.
The Ephesian believers were among the best and holiest of all the early churches, and from Paul's epistle to that church we learn the very high order of their faith and spiritual discernment and fruitfulness. John wrote the Revelation over thirty years after the epistles of Paul to the Ephesians, and nearly a whole generation had passed away, and while the blessed Jesus recognized their works, and patience, and hatred of false doctrine, yet amid all their zeal, and orthodoxy, and morality, they had lost the deep, pure, melting love to Jesus which always characterizes the high water mark of holy love.
Hence, we learn from this word protos agape, instead of mias agape, that the love of a young convert, as a babe in Christ, however strong it may be, is not the highest form of love. A great many ministers, in preaching from that text, who do not know the perfection of love experimentally, through the abiding fullness of the Spirit, give an erroneous interpretation to the passage, and represent that the love of a young convert because it is first in the order of time, is the best and the strongest form of Christian love. And so they deny any perfection of love, or any higher love subsequent to the new birth, and magnify the believer's infant love in justification as the grandest epoch in Gospel experience. And, instead of urging believers to a state of divine love, ten-fold stronger and higher than their first conversion love, they are always turning the eyes of old Christians back to their spiritual cradle, trying to realize their conversion over again, and singing the backward-looking hymn, "What peaceful hours I once enjoyed." The love that Jesus wants us to give Him is first class, first in rank, the very cream of the heart, the love of a spiritual bride, the protos agape, which outranks every other affection and every other degree of love which is possible to our nature.
1. The first-class love is the love of the spouse to the heavenly Bridegroom. It has a great many marks to distinguish it from the love of the partially sanctified believer. While in both stages of experience the love is divine, yet this first, highest rank love is pure, unselfish, unmixed with earthly motives, and far more positive, and concentrated, and pungent, and prompt, and fearless. Among the distinguishing traits of this first-class, bridehood love, we may notice the following. It is intensely personal. In the weaker stages of Christian life, love for God is of a vague and general nature, and the affection for a divine personality is indistinct. It is a holy love in a general way for the church, the Bible, and good people, and for God, and Jesus, all more or less blended together. But in the higher rank of pure love for Jesus, as the Bridegroom of the soul, there is a bright and startling distinctness in it for Him as a person, a deep, interior attachment, a divine passion for the God-man, a personal love which is not confused in the love for the Father, or for the Holy Spirit, or for the saints, or for God's Word; a love which does not weaken but rather brightens every other love, yet so intensely personal for the blessed Jesus that if He were taken away, the soul, like a heavenly lover, would die of a broken heart. Again, this bridehood love is exceedingly tender, it is continually bathed in a sea of exquisite gentleness. It cures the soul of harshness and rashness, and religious scolding and sanctified severity. It is worth a hundred deaths for any Christian to get into that place of unspeakable tenderness of spirit which adivine passion for Jesus will produce. Again, this highest rank love has a lightening-like vigilance in it; it has keen eyes to see divine things, it watches the dealings of God, the movements of the Spirit, the divine manifestations, the interior operations of grace; it follows close behind the Master and keeps in a frame of highest intellectual activity, and watches every opportunity of obtaining a deeper union with Christ. Again, it is very sensitive for the things of God; it is jealous for its Lord, and loses that miserable trait of touchiness which so many Christian people have, because it is so touchy toward the glory of Jesus.It would gladly be a door mat for Jesus to walk upon. It is a sweet and lavish love, which enjoys suffering for His sake. Again, this highest love is distinguished by an intense craving for God. The heart pines for Christ as for an absent lover, and although it feels His presence warming the fountains of the soul, yet it craves to see Him, it yearns for the beatific vision of the three persons in the Godhead, and longs to see the King in His beauty coming in His kingdom; it is that leaping, bounding desire for Christ spoken of in the Song of Solomon. This love is covered all over with graces that correspond with the royalty of Jesus, and loves Him in all His forms, and all His offices, and adores Him as a loving despot under whose feet it delights to hide.
2. First-class love for Jesus will prompt the soul to be and do its very best for God. People who enter this state will have a singular prayer spring up in their hearts in which they will deliberately beg the Lord to do His infinite best in them, and through them. It will be no ordinary prayer, such as most Christians pray at random, but a deep, solemn, earnest thoughtful prayer, in which they look, as it were, into the face of all possibilities, and of all contingencies, and in view of every price it may cost, and of every suffering it may bring, they calmly and bravely meet the issue, and plead with tears that Jesus will take utter possession of them, and carry out in them the very best purposes of His love and will. Such a prayer, born out of bridehood love, will be accompanied or followed by wonderful revelations of Jesus, and of the beautiful possibilities of our union with Him. There will open up to the spiritual understanding, serene ocean depths into the character of God that make the heart quiver with holy fascination at the gorgeous things in the soul of Jesus. And this is followed by an inexpressible thirst that Christ would pour all of Himself through us, as blood through the veins of the body. From this time on the soul wants no character but that of Christ, it despises every thought except the Christ-thoughts, it wants no life but His life, no plans but His, no opinions but His, no love but His. Then in deed and in truth its motto is, "Not I, but Christ."
3. This first-class love leads the soul instinctively to choose a first-class service. The higher we ascend in fellowship with God, the more accurately we can discern the different ranks of service which people are rendering to God. There are Christian people who serve God on the plane of philanthropy, and humanitarian enterprises, or on lines of education and reform, and we should praise God for whatever can be accomplished in these departments of service. There are others who serve on the plane of their denominational church work, and their service is largely the outcome of sectarian zeal and denominational pride; they have hardly learned to deal with God directly, or to co-operate with Him in a personal way, and all their service is through the medium of a religious system. There are others who serve God in a more direct way, but still they have mixed motives. They desire to do something great for the Lord, but they are strongly attached to their own religious work, and they want some credit for what they do. But the highest love leads the soul out into the highest forms of service, which is a service in the power of the Holy Ghost, and a service to accomplish everlasting results in the saving and sanctifying of souls, and a service for Christ alone, regardless of self-interest.
Such believers aim at not merely reforming people, but saving them from all sin; not merely at blessing people in time, but blessing them in eternity. They seek not to build up a party, or a system, but to build up Christ in the soul. They don't try to get results by planning, but by prayer; not to accomplish certain results, but to have God accomplish His thoughts. In other words, all their service is up in the altitudes of the Holy Spirit. Many great and strong people are wasting their energies on some lower level of second or third-class service, with Utopian dreams, which at the best will produce only brief, or physical, or local benefits. First-class love for Christ will lead us to serve in the highest forms, with the highest agencies, from the highest motives, with the highest zeal, and under the highest light, for the accomplishment of the highest results, for the highest well-being which God has provided for us. Let us keep in mind that Jesus is very sensitive to any coldness in the hearts of His people. Inasmuch as His very nature is love, He is keenly alive to any lack of love in us, and everything else which it is possible for us to give can never form a substitute for our warmest personal affections for Him. God loves to be loved. He made us to love Him, and if we fail in that love, it disappoints His infinite heart. Nothing will satisfy Him but our best love, and every thing we do for God is acceptable according to the love that is in it. Hence the heavenly Bridegroom is ever on the alert for the protos agape, for those humble and crucified hearts that love Him with their first-class love.
| 2012/1/10 7:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Amen, Brother Colin - I downloaded it the day you posted it, but because I'm dependent on an unsecured wireless connection that goes in and out - I couldn't add it to your post on the Revival Section last night but sincerely wanted to. I'm playing 'beat the clock' when I'm signed-on.
It's an excellent exhortation to Biblical truth on the topic, Brother and I'm very grateful. It's no coincidence that you posted it for us again here. GOD is Good and His Love is beautiful and selfless, even under the fires of persecution ... As Richard Wurmbrand actually glowed in the videos I saw of him, sharing in Churches - just as one example of His outside The Word written through His Saints.
Thank you very Much!
| 2012/1/10 10:51|
| a heart of stone -|
Mat 13:20,21 And that sown on the stony places is this: the one hearing the Word, and immediately receiving it with joy, but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended.
| 2012/1/12 2:29|