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That question has been heavy on me and I ask for reasons of the heart. Would He tell us to not go beyond what is written and then tell us by His Spirit to ignore His original Words?



An honest question begets an honest answer.

Well there is biblical precedent of Him doing this in many, if not most of the great men of faith. Abraham was commended for receiving the moving towards attempted murder, Rahab for the lie, David for eating the shewbread, Hosea for marrying a harlot, Peter for eating unclean animals.

However, when Saul tried something similar in offering a sacrifice, or when Cain brought his best sacrifice, both were condemned. Then there is Uzziah who touched the ark and died trying to do something that required faith.

The only reason, faith allows you to do things that law doesn't.

There is good reason for women not to be leading men as found in the epistles, however desperate times can call for desperate measures as in Deborah's time. When there are no available men, the Lord can and has used a woman to make Him known. The key is, as a woman stepping out in faith against God's word you need to be as certain about being called as Abraham was of Isaac's resurrection, lest an Uzziah moment comes upon you unexpectedly.

OJ

ETA The reality is, if you truly believe women are biblically disqualified from teaching men, in an effort to be biblical would that not disqualify you from posting in an effort to teach men?.....just saying. When you stare that one down for a minute, it kind of hits right at the heart of the issue of preach what you believe, and believe what you preach.

 2012/1/11 12:58
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

When God calls men and they don't answer, what's a girl to do, when He calls them?

Jackie Pullinger and many other women will tell you they just answered His call.

"Here I am Lord, send me".

What is not of faith, is sin. Romans 14:23

Good one Old_Joe.

Pilgrim

 2012/1/11 13:21Profile









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Quote:

I woke this morning feeling that love for all here that I feel when I think of His Church and desired to get back on here asap based upon that one emotion.



This is actually one of the reasons that women are disqualified from preaching for. Emotion is not to be a driver for preaching, and women tend to be very emotional. They are made that way for a reason, but that reason is not to take upon the demands of standing before the great onslaught of people on the behalf of God. It is a troublesome job not handled well when one is emotional, so to spare the woman this grief, God sends men out to do it instead. Same reason men don't have kids, our hips just can't bear to stretch as much as needed to get the job done. Both go back to the curse at the fall, but the Lord at least has mercy on each of us by making neither of us responsible for both!!!

OJ

 2012/1/11 13:28
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
If I am reading this correctly, you are stating that what begins to happen in a "ordered" home via scripture creates either a passivity or domineering relationship between the man or women.


Miccah, You ask a fair question, I think. I use the duo-terms “passivity/domineering” to refer to unscriptural pattern of relating to one another– in which one partner in a relationship abdicates (surrenders) responsibility and the other usurps it from that person. This stifles the function of love – ie our high calling in Christ.

No one needs equality of status to fulfill God’s calling (I hope I conveyed that!). What I hear Paul saying is that the person with the power must not quench it in the other, and the person with less power must not surrender it (ie, their calling in Christ). The “weaker” one is equally responsible in Christ as the one with more power. Status does not absolve anyone from submitting to the other in love – as Christ submitted to humanity through the sacrifice of his life. (That did not make Christ less than God, did it?)

Does that make any sense?

A note on the insidiousness of carnality and legalism:
I know women, raised under conservative teachings, who are using fleshly measures to achieve godly “order” in their household. By the letter of the law it sounds like a godly desire, but in reality, it’s idolatrous. Really these wives want their husbands to be the knight in shining armor, that heroic lord and protector, spiritual head. This idolatrous reliance on their husbands surfaces in frustration, anger, and complaints – along with manipulation and power struggles. Meanwhile neither partner is submitting to the other in Christ-like love – with the desire to see the partner become strong and complete in Jesus Christ. Sometimes exasperated women approach me about their "incompetent" husbands. My aim is that the wives see their own responsibility to build into the lives of their husbands - not merely want it the other way around.

There’s the flip side: men who find their value through power over others. In a legalistic environment, this may look like adherence to the law of God. It’s adherence to the LETTER, but really it is a flesh-driven craving masked under religious righteousness.

Am I muddying the water – or clearing it up?
Actually, I think it’s legalism that does all the muddying for us! May God empower us to see the spirit of the law more clearly!!

Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/11 14:00Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Emotion is not to be a driver for preaching,



“Jesus wept.”

May God send us more preachers who have the capacity to weep for their people, to cry out before God on their behalf, to weep the tears the people cannot weep because their hearts have become so hardened, so calloused over.

May God turn our dry eyes into weeping eyes! These will be the REAL preachers of our future.

PS This is about the capacity to enter into the world of another. That's not self-oriented subjectivism!!! (something not noble in either gender)

Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/11 14:15Profile
Miccah
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Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Yes, Jesus did weep, but He did not base His preaching on emotion. Emotion is not a bad thing, but I would have to admit that people, as in us fallen humans, act so much more differently when we act emotionally. I know that I do.

Crying and crying out for the saved and unsaved is a great thing. But to base preaching on emotion is an issue. We see this in the BH circles, the TB circles, the "prophetic" circles... What we usually see is that once the emotion wears off, so does the "annointing".

Blessings.


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Christiaan

 2012/1/11 14:21Profile
sarahsdream
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Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

A women who is "in Christ" is capable of having her emotions shored up and strengthened by the Holy Spirit as much as a man. The Fruit of the Spirit, self-control is for women as much as men just as the Spirit of God is as much for women as He is for men.

We are talking about being "in Christ" here, not in the flesh.

If Jesus is the one that gives strength to the mind, will and emotions, it cannot just be for men.

In so many cases today, women are running households where men have become passive and dropped out of their responsibilities. They have no time for emotions when their flock needs them.

Please, let's not turn this into gender competition. Jesus is the one that makes the difference in men or women. We risk legalism and falling into the flesh once again. Let's keep this on a spiritual plane.

Old_Joe,

I did like your comment:

Quote:
ETA The reality is, if you truly believe women are biblically disqualified from teaching men, in an effort to be biblical would that not disqualify you from posting in an effort to teach men?.....just saying. When you stare that one down for a minute, it kind of hits right at the heart of the issue of preach what you believe, and believe what you preach.




And agree with you on what you say. That if as a woman I firmly believe I have nothing to offer in the way of teaching then I should not post. Because on SI, usually the very nature of much of the posts are about "teaching". You stated the obvious that many of us have picked up from those who say "women can't teach" but then they proceed to teach. That is strange behaviour, I agree.

But I also affirm that God is capable of teaching a man or a women and in turn a man or a women is capable of sharing what they have learned from the Great Teacher.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2012/1/11 14:30Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
But to base preaching on emotion is an issue.


And exploitative! It brings in the $$$$. It works on FELT needs (like addictions) rather than real needs. Surely it can be proven that this devious exploitation of emotion is not gender specific!!!


But yes - there is a need for informative, thought-producing biblical teaching in the church so people are less gullible to emotional exploitation.

Interestingly, in scripture the heart and mind are the same thing - not two distinct entities - as it is now. Unfortunately the "heart" has become equated with emotion - perhaps as a reaction against objectivism in the past (ie, objective knowledge is the only truth)

And so now - what you FEEL is often seen as more authentic than what you THINK.

Is that not a propensity in modern evangelicalism?

Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/11 14:33Profile
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I have to admit that roadsign is correct. More men are exploiting emotion than women, it seems.

Being "in Christ" truly does change everything as Sarah indicated.

Pilgrim

 2012/1/11 14:38Profile









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Exploiting emotion is bad. But when men are exploiting emotion, are they emotionally attached or just monetarily attached to their exploitation? Next who are they exploiting in the majority of cases, other men or women? It ain't other men. Emotion very rarely exploits another man.

Job's wife was exploited by emotion, Job, no. Men are exploited by other things, but not by emotion.

Ezekiel's wife died and was COMMANDED not to shed a tear, and didn't as he appeared to the people on behalf of the Lord.

Pretty hard to be led by the Spirit while overcome with emotion. Like Job's wife, or Sarah in casting out Hagar, or others overcome with emotion. That is why emotion is a detriment to preaching. Same reason Jesus didn't preach when he wept, he preached later.

Though possible to be raised up for difficult tasks, women are generally used of the Lord in quieter circumstances, but men are built for war. That is why it was Luther and not his Katie that had the constitution to stand against Rome.

OJ

 2012/1/11 14:59





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