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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is Tithing mandatory to the new testament believer?

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 Re:

Why do you question me about righteousness? There is only one who is Perfect and that is Yahweh.

Our Savior said "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." Matthew 19:17

That should settle the matter right? But mankind wants to do it his own way. We know better don't we.

 2012/1/5 16:29
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

theEphah.

So either you obey, or you do not. Which is it theEphah? Do you obey the commandments?

When you make bold statements that it is a direct command of the Lord and we must obey, you should be able to back it up by saying that you obey the commandments of the Lord.

Simple


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/5 16:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So either you obey, or you do not. Which is it theEphah? Do you obey the commandments?



Do you wanna argue just for the sake of arguing?
Did our Savior ask us to keep the commandments or not? (Matthew 19:17)

You don't have to obey any of the commandments, but don't lie about it either.

Why would I have a conversation with you about something you completely reject? What would that profit me?

 2012/1/5 16:41
David_G
Member



Joined: 2011/11/27
Posts: 13
Irving Tx

 Re:

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

Download the pdf and READ it.


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David R. Grider

 2012/1/5 16:43Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

theEphah,

ok... You first responded to something I said. I asked you a question in return. Its called a conversation.


theEphah, you said,

"You don't have to obey any of the commandments, but don't lie about it either.

Why would I have a conversation with you about something you completely reject?"

First off my friend. This is very close to bearing false witness against someone. You claim that I am a liar, then you claim I reject the commandments, which you have zero proof over. What have I lied about?

Secondly. You make bold statements that you obey the tithe commandment, but when asked if you obey all of the commandments, you get defensive and start throwing out accusations.


theEphah. If you wish to make statements about obeying the commandments, then that is great. There is an opening for a new pharisee up the street.

If you want to dive deeper into an understanding about the Lord, then asking and answering questions that can test and challange your faith "profits" not only you, but others as well.

If you do not wish to answer questions, so be it. But know that if you make bold statements as fact, know that others will challange you, pro or con.




_________________
Christiaan

 2012/1/5 17:16Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
theEphah wrote:
Why do you question me about righteousness? There is only one who is Perfect and that is Yahweh.

Our Savior said "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." Matthew 19:17


Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets:"
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22.37-40


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Lisa

 2012/1/5 22:30Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

[quote Ephah]]Do you wanna argue just for the sake of arguing?
Did our Savior ask us to keep the commandments or not? (Matthew 19:17)




He did not ask Christians to keep the Mosaic Laws, these comments were not in any shape or form directed toward Christians, the New Covenant did not even exist when He said this.

Jesus addressed this comment to a young rich Jew and not to me nor to you. There was no New Covenant when Jesus spoke these words, and all Jews were exclusively under the Mosaic Law, with its' 613 commandments.

But As Christians, we believe the Book of Hebrews which states:

Heb 7:11-22

"11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place A CHANGE OF LAW also."

i BELIEVE YOU MISSED THIS FACT ABOUT THE CHANGE OF LAW FROM THE LD COVENANT TO THE NEW COVENANT!


"13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

"YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), ..."

Ephah, do you understand Verse 18 and portion of 19 above.

The former commandment is the Mosaic Law, which exist under the temporary order of Levi, and God set the Mosaic Law aside because of its weakness and uselessness, for the Mosaic Law made nothing perfect!

And that it HAS BEEN REPLACED BY GOD WITH A BETTER COVENANT.

"19 ...and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"THE LORD HAS SWORN
AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,
'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. NASU

Wow! The New Covenant established by Jesus is the guarantee of a better Covenant than the Mosaic Covenant with its' 613 laws, including the 10 commandments that everyone talks about.

If you are still in doubt abut the above, read this:

Heb 8:7-13

Verse 7 (A New Covenant)


For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

"8. BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11 "AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,'
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
12 "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE."

13 When He said, " A new covenant," He has made the first [the Mosaic Covenant] obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
NASU

So Ephah, why do you still think that we who are under the NEW COVENANT by which Jesus saves us, that we are also under the Law of the Old Mosaic Covenant that God made obsolete because it was useless and worthless. You must choose one or the other. Death by being under the Mosaic Law, or eternal life if you moved under God's grace and mercy by embracing the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. This is truly a gift from God to us. We do not earn it with our works, that none may boast.

See also Zechariah 11: 7-14. Prediction that God will annihilate the Mosaic Covenant.

As for the topic question, Tithing is not mandatory, but generosity has great benefit, and choose your charitable giving wisely. When you can not afford to give much money, you may give in service. And we all can give to others in witness by our loving actions, deeds, and kind and good words.


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Arthur Biele

 2012/1/6 9:04Profile









 Re:

---ArtB-- lower your tone, all those caps are hurting my eyes, thanks.

Fact 1:

(Matthew 19:17 "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Did our Savior ask us to keep the commandments or not? A simple Yes or No will work, you don't have to write an essay.

 2012/1/6 9:41
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

theEphah said, "Did our Savior ask us to keep the commandments or not? A simple Yes or No will work, you don't have to write an essay."

Yes He did.


Now a question for you theEphah...


Do YOU keep the commandments?


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Christiaan

 2012/1/6 10:11Profile
Dlight
Member



Joined: 2011/9/24
Posts: 49


 Re: On tighing and the Law

If Jesus had preached on tithing in the sermon on the mount, this is what I think He may have said:

"You have heard the prophets say to give 10% of your possessions to the Lord. But I tell you to sell all you have, give away all to the poor and follow me. For the earth and the fullness thereof belong to the Lord, and all you have is not yours; It belongs to Him who commands the stars."

What good is it to say you have never fallen into adultery when you constantly and actively lust after women? Similarly, what good is tithing if in your heart, your attitude towards earthly possessions is that of a pagan? Rather, Christians should know and behave as if all they own belongs to God; down to the last penny. whether or not the 10% is given religiously. That is not to say that the commandment is to be trashed. But there is a standard higher than the standard of giving 10% - it is the attitude of the heart.

PS

If your posts range in the thousands, you should be knowing by now that anything and everything you post on this website can and will be debated.

 2012/1/6 11:08Profile





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