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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Those who prophesy

How many times has anyone within the church heard someone prophesy and wondered if they are a prophet and are wowed by them? Yet we are supposed to test them to see if those who think they are prophets truly are but how is one to know whether a person is truly a prophet if you cannot follow them around and record what they say to see if it comes to pass?

Today, while coming home I was listening to 10 minutes of a guy on talk radio and he mentioned that Pat Robertson said he thought he knew who the next president of the U.S. would be but he wasn't supposed to say. He also said an economic collapse would come. Many people, christian and non alike think him to be a heretic-yet what I want to know is this- Is anyone keeping up with the prophesies this guy make year after year? Does this CBN network keep up with it? What is his accuracy or is this done for entertainment purposes and it may help to bring in money to CBN?

What about others who prophesy but we don't know their track record of prophesying. Is it right to call them a prophet? Is it jugemental to call them a heretic?


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John

 2012/1/4 16:29Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1413


 Re: Those who prophesy

Hi Deadn,
I think this is an important issue and not an easy one to deal with.
If someone makes a prophesy and it doesnt come to pass then we can do two things as I see it.
1.We can let it slide
2.We can confront
If we let it slide then where does it stop.Also what about the message this sends out to the world.
If we confront then it has to be out of love,that doesnt mean that it cant be strong.
The most difficult thing is when a christian who clearly loves the lord and is a true brother and sister become involved in false prophesy for what ever reason.
The one thing is that shouldnt happen is nothing.If we are not credible what are we?
Agreeing with you
Staff

 2012/1/4 20:12Profile









 Re:

Let's examine what scripture says about modern day prophets.

Amos 3:7 (Interational Standard Version)
Truly the Lord GOD will do nothing he has mentioned without revealing his purposes to his servants the prophets.

Which prophets? The answer is found in Matthew 11:13

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John"

The Prophets up until John is the answer. Many people today pretend to be Prophets. If one is a Prophet of Yahweh, it's because the Scriptures prophesy of him. If the Inspired Written Scriptures of the Holy Prophets do not testify of that person, then that person is not sent by Yahweh.

Read John 5:31
"If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.

If a work is not prophesied by Yahweh's Prophets, it's not Yahweh's Work; it's Satan's work. They don't seek the Kingdom of Yahweh or His Righteousness as we are told to do by the Savior Matthew 6:33

 2012/1/4 22:19
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
The Prophets up until John is the answer. Many people today pretend to be Prophets. If one is a Prophet of Yahweh, it's because the Scriptures prophesy of him. If the Inspired Written Scriptures of the Holy Prophets do not testify of that person, then that person is not sent by Yahweh.



The prophet is a ministry gift mentioned in the book of Ephesians 4:11-13

"So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."

Additionally there are two distinctive type of prophecy in the New Testament:

Predictive Prophecy- Demonstrated by Agabus when He told Paul that his hands were going to be in chains in the book of Acts:

"After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Prophesying under the Power of the Holy Spirit (preaching with unction)- This talks about believers who are preaching is such a way that an unbelievers 'heart is laid bare' heart laid bare as in speaking directly into someones life or situation, bringing conviction without even knowing them.

2 Corinthians 14:24- 25 "But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”"

Neither of these gifts ever ceased to exist, in fact just the opposite.

Peace!

 2012/1/4 22:51Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: Those who prophesy

Quote:
Staff wrote:
I think this is an important issue and not an easy one to deal with.
If someone makes a prophesy and it doesn’t come to pass then we can do two things as I see it.
1. We can let it slide
2. We can confront
If we let it slide then where does it stop. Also what about the message this sends out to the world.
If we confront then it has to be out of love, that doesn’t mean that it can’t be strong.
The most difficult thing is when a Christian who clearly loves the lord and is a true brother and sister become involved in false prophesy for whatever reason.
The one thing is that shouldn’t happen is nothing. If we are not credible what are we?
Agreeing with you


Staff,

May I ask if you have and operate in the gift of prophesy? How do “YOU” really know a prophesy is false?

Onto the general topic of prophesy minus Pat Robertson... The word says that we prophesy according to the proportion of our faith. Therefore, a newly gifted person will not prophesy like one who has prophesied for 20 or even 30 years. There have been those who have prophesied just one word and to the one that it was meant for, it spoke volumes.

How would you ‘confront’ a one-word prophesy as being false if you didn’t know who that one word was for or even what it meant; we need to trust the Lord with any prophesy if we don’t know who it’s meant for or what the full meaning (ramifications) of it is. You know, if used to take hundreds of years for a prophesy to come to pass; the person prophesying could have been tarred and feathered as a false prophet before it came to pass. We shouldn't rush to judgment.

God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2012/1/4 23:41Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 705
San Diego

 Re:

I agree with Learjet. Prophecy is indeed treated by the New Testament authors as an integral part of the Christian message, always expected to have both a natural and supernatural expression.

The apostles clearly heard Jesus tell them to go out and to perform miracles, and Paul told the Corinthians that their faith should not be based on just the word of man but upon the demonstration of the Spirit. That was how he worked, and the Spirit of God confirmed with the signs that followed.

Much about New Testament prophecy can be learned from Paul's simple instruction in 1Cor. 14:3 where church prophecy by members of the body is for edification, exhortation, and consolation. I didn't read "prediction", Mr. Robertson...?

There is a passage, Romans 12:6, that tells people to prophesy in proportion to their faith. Having some experience with making prophetic utterances, I began with some thought that was both appropriate to the situation, and in accord with the Word of God. When I spoke, I did so with some proportion God, some proportion me. I must quickly say that the proportions were more like 2% God, 98% me.

I do not know who the next president will be, but my prophecy is that it probably won't be Pat Robertson.

Prophecy in the modern church has been in most cases disastrous. Yet the Word stands, and Paul gives all permission to take a turn and go for it. The church at the same time is charged with the responsibility to judge the prophets and their words. (1Cor.14:29-33)

In short, the exercise of spiritual gifts is strongly encouraged, but without bathing it in wisdom and humility people are going to get hurt. I am not surprised that so many churches don't want to touch it. But the worst thing we can do is tell people that clear instructions in the New Testament are "Not for today."

That is the portal of heresy.


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Tom Cameron

 2012/1/5 0:22Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Here is a danger that I see within the church when it comes to prophesy. It is too easy to begin quoting scripture about what prophesying is and how to test it. Using this for the answer is like telling a sinner 'Jesus loves you' -it becomes meaningless unless they understand the deeper meaning. In the same breath, there are a number of people out there who have prophesied who are not unknown yet how many people keep records of their sayings to determine what they said came to pass and thus probably of God vs not of God?

Among names that I know of is Pat Robertson, David Wilkerson (he did not claim to be a prophet), harold Camping (easy one to say FALSE), Kim Clement.

As you can see, my initial thoughts are towards those preachers who are more widely known vs small church pastor.

I usually am left wondering if there is anyone who prophey's anymore or if there are any modern day prophets. I chuckle when I see people post about some person in another land who is a prophet and they put forward videos to prove it when the video just shows them preaching. We hardly ever see or read of a Word that came to pass that really proved the Word, if you get what I mean?


_________________
John

 2012/1/5 8:34Profile









 Re: Those who prophesy

DEADn -- Excellent point. Exactly what I tried to convey in my previous post. We have to believe what the scriptures say.
In order to avoid this confusion, the Apostle John made it very, very clear, the prophet cannot testify of himself, the prophet himself has to be in prophesy way before he came on the scene. We see this example all throughout the scriptures. There are many many prophecies concerning the Savior before he was even born. The coming of John himself was foretold.

Read John 5:31
"If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.

Yes power was given to the church to prophecy, but whoever says he's a prophet and was sent by Yahweh has to be foretold to us in the scripture, that was the condition.

If this wasn't so, then how can we conclude that Pat Robertson is not a prophet? or Harold Camping, Herbert Armstrong or Ellen G White.

The only prophet testified to come in our generation by the Holy Scriptures is that of the Two Witnesses of Rev. 11


 2012/1/5 10:24
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I like to think of prophecy, which is called "the testimony of Jesus," as simply saying what Jesus has to say. It is actively declaring the heart and mind of Christ. It's to speak forth His word. It is to say what He would say, if He were here on earth to say it Himself.

I think if one were to operate with this understanding, in one failed swoop we would rid ourselves of the many false prophets who go around and say a lot of the silly things they do in the name of God. Many men are making great fortunes and drawing a lot of attention to themselves by making unusual predictions and teaching a lot of strange things, as if prophesy were some skill one could improve upon. They have conferences, schools, books, tape series, mailing lists, and blogs. They make predictions about "revivals" and "movements." Some of which sound pretty impressive.

But at the end of day, what they say is hollow and fickle. It doesn't sound anything like what our Master has said. It is unimpressive, and almost entirely forgetable. But people are often impressed. And bank accounts are often filled.


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Jimmy H

 2012/1/5 10:52Profile





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