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MD4Christ
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 4


 Re:

To accept experiences over God's Word is dangerous. When we start letting our emotions and feelings dictate what we believe to be truth and never analyze the information in light of scripture we allow ourselves to be "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine." Ephesians 4:14
To suggest that men can go around with the "annointing" freely dispensing God's power through their "laying on of hands", "breathing on people" or my favorite "swirling a coat in the air" towards a crowd, is ridiculous, and unbiblical.
To suggest that being "slain in the spirit" is a common occurence in today's churches because of three scriptures is not reasonable (I Kings 8:11, John 18 and I Chronicles 5:14). Men falling to the ground before Jesus are only natural responses of fearful men to divine power. When God's manifestation and glory filled the newly built temple by Solomon, it was a celebration of the ark, the holy dwelling place of God, being placed in its rightful place. Surely God would be pleased to show himself to his people. This does not prove that being slain in the spirit at most charismatic churches is biblical.
A genuine Christian revival brings about a profound sense of the awesome holiness of God and a convicting awareness of our own sin (Isaiah 6:5, Luke 5:8). It brings about a desire to obey Jesus, and the apostle's he appointed, through the scriptures and please the Father through our every deed (Acts 2:41-47.
In contrast we find that revivals where being "slain in the spirit" among other unbiblical acts (speaking in tongues, barking, laughing, levitating, etc.) take place, the desires are usually focused on chasing men who possess the "anointing" from church to church or even state to state to "feel" the power again and again. The focus is taken away from the Lord and experience takes precedent over God's Word. God will never contradict his Word, nor will he add any new “revelations” to it. It is perfect, complete and instructs us “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a worker that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” II Timothy 2:15

Quote:

PreachParsly wrote:
1Ki 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

2Ch 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Jhn 18:5-7 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am [he]. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

Here a few instances in the Bible when men could not stand because of the presence of the Lord. I agree with some of the replys i have read that there is alot of false manifestations going on.. people pushing others just to look like they are "falling out" or something. When I was converted and turned to the Lord it was during a "gospel singing" those of you from southern US know what im talking about :) . In the middle of the concert the lead singer of the group pointed at me and not knowing my name or ever having seen me before said "God is working on you today". I was in utter shock that this man pointed me out and i had no idea why he would do this. They went on to the next song and the song was called "That's God". During that song the conviction came so heavy on me I was crying so hard I was shaking uncontrolably. I could not even move at all my parents asked me if I wanted to go to the alter. I dont think i even really responded... I really dont remember. But they had to carry me, i couldnt even walk. The night before I partied alot and was selling dope at the time. I was deleivered from that that day and got rid of all that i had after church. Not that having a manifestation means anything more when someone gets saved but that is what happened to me. I hope this helps.

 2005/1/24 22:24Profile
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

Quote:
Men falling to the ground before Jesus are only natural responses of fearful men to divine power.


You know, this is a really long thread on a hot topic. And I've deliberately avoided it, because I have been into it with people over this topic before. But somehow, I got sucked into it this morning and began to read. I must admit I haven't read the whole thread, don't have time, but I did go back and read enough to try and find the original point. The argument seems to be whether or not being "slain in the spirit" is a real manifestation of God at work in a person. In other words, were the people actually incapable of moving because they were afraid or does the presence of God sometimes produce a sort of paralasis, if you will?

First of all, let me say I agree with Ron that there is alot of counterfeit and mixture. I think we see that always with the supernatural gifts. But...because there is so much faking going on, we cannot discount the real. I have been to services where people were laid out, as they say, "like cordwood", and I was still standing feeling absolutely nothing. I've been shoved to the ground by so-called ministers. I have also had 3 different experiences that I know were real and it wasn't my "fearful response to divine power". I didn't feel afraid at all. All I know is, I, like Phebe, was standing one minute and on the floor the next. On two of those three occasions, I was unable to get up for about 45 minutes even though I tried to get up. I was crying and experiencing this amazing feeling that God was doing something in my heart that I wanted him to do and had waited on for a long time. I promise you, if it ever happens to you, no one can ever tell you it wasn't something supernatural from God. It isn't natural, it's supernatural.
Josh, your testimony touched me. The fact that your parents carried you to the altar...that's something that no one can ever tell you wasn't real. When we have had a personal encounter with God, whether we experience some supernatural manifestation or not, you can never forget it. Moses encountered God in a bush that was burning but wasn't being consumed. There wasn't a scripture to "back that up". Tell him he isn't practicing good theology. Love, Dian.

 2005/1/25 6:12Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi MD4Christ,

Quote:
(speaking in tongues, barking, laughing, levitating, etc.)



I was pretty much in agreement with your post although I think placing speaking in tongues in this list is a serious error. In other posts it has been discovered that 60% of New Testament examples of being filled with the Spirit are accompanied by glossolalia (speaking in tongues). Never is barking, laughing, levitating, etc. mentioned. To place tongues in that category is to place Paul, Peter, the Apostles, in question. Paul said he spoke with tongues more than everyone. He prayed with the Spirit and with the understanding also. He sang with the Spirit and with the understanding also. He told the church clearly not to forbid folk to speak with tongues. Prophecy is better in a group setting. Tongues in personal prayer or that is accompanied by a legitimate interpretation is a God created expression of New Testament Christianity. Man did not create tongues. The devil may have perverted it, but he has done that with almost all things. If we toss out everything he has subverted what would be left? Moreover if he wants to extract something from the church he taints it with his influence and the church throws it overboard. We must use discernment to identify the genuine, prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. I am very anti-emotionalism also. We agree there. I just don't agree that tongues fits in the afore mentioned list.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/1/25 8:34Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

I watched the video of my friends experience that I have shared. The pastor testified that God had put my friends face in his mind the night before. The pastor called my friend and his wife up and prayed over them. The pastor prayed that God would use this couple mightily. He prophesied that my friends wife will be one in ministry with my friend. Then the pastor went back to the pulpit and began to speak. That is where my friend fell down.

In terms of the ongoing prayer and fasting for the new believer with liver cancer the church continues to intercede. The man has not taken morphine for two weeks and is now driving a car. He testified before the church last Sunday and praise God. His mother confessed Christ this last week because of the son's testimony.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/1/25 15:16Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

MD4Christ wrote:

Quote:
God will never contradict his Word, nor will he add any new “revelations” to it. It is perfect, complete and instructs us



Rev. 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Often times we repeat what someone else has taught. Would you consider that these two witnessess who prophesy will reveal more of God's will to those who are alive to hear them?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/1/25 15:30Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

MD4Christ wrote;

Quote:
In contrast we find that revivals where being "slain in the spirit" among other unbiblical acts (speaking in tongues, barking, laughing, levitating, etc.) take place, the desires are usually focused on chasing men who possess the "anointing" from church to church or even state to state to "feel" the power again and again.



In the video that I watched there was a sense of what you described here. There is a hint of "chasing men who possess the "anointing" from church to church or even state to state to "feel" the power again and again."

However, this also exists outside of the charismatic realm. I have attended tent revivals held by a conservative mennonite fellowship. Men of that denomination also travel from state to state sharing their testimonies. Under these circumstances, the nature of the meetings are definitely different than the video that I have watched.

We here at SI also expound upon the likes of Tozer, Wilkerson, and Ravenhill. It seems it is very easy to fall into the trap of seeking men instead of seeking God. God has repeatedly taught me not to dwell too long on the thoughts of men but to seek Him. The most perfect way will be when we realize that we are in a lonely place, where only Jesus is before us.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/1/26 11:50Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37288
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
(I Kings 8:11, John 18 and I Chronicles 5:14)


Scripture and Verse? was my first question that came in mind when I looked at the topic. I have breezed through most of the posts and I don't think anyone has adquately shown from the scriptures that this phenomenon is biblical. I truly believe its not found in the bible.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/1/26 12:49Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Brother Gregg wrote:

Quote:
I don't think anyone has adquately shown from the scriptures that this phenomenon is biblical. I truly believe its not found in the bible.



True enough Br. Gregg. Chuck Smith teaches this also. And indeed this is sound reasoning. And Brother Ron has also sought not to get into speculative theology which this thread is immerced in. Yet, I am not convinced by this reasoning. Many will say that because they cannot find evidence of this phenomenon in Scripture, therefore this particular manifestation cannot be of God. Well then, if not of God, then it must be of Satan.

Now for those who have testified of this experience in this thread, are they under the domain of Satan? Does Scripture teach that Satan has the power to knock down one of God's children?

Scripture teaches us that God spoke to Balaam through a donkey. Scripture teaches us that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush. Scripture teaches us that God used a large fish to teach Jonah a lesson. What then can be said for these Scriptures and what can one conclude from the examples that are given to us in Scripture?

Let me say that I am not supporting one side or the other. I am watching for the evidence.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/1/26 15:04Profile









 Re:

I'll take scripture over experience and emotions anyday.

As to whether Satan can knock God's children down? Well... let me ask you this... can Satan deceive God's children? (The answer is obviously "yes")

I also believe people want to be knocked down, so they go down under their own unction.

I've been there, done that. Used to be a Charismatic myself. Speaking only for myself, the more I studied the Bible, the more problems I began to have with the Charismatic movement. I'm now completely away from it. Praise the Lord!

Krispy

 2005/1/26 15:28
phebebird
Member



Joined: 2004/11/23
Posts: 91
San Pedro, California

 Re:

Hi Krispy,
Thank you for your post. Just wanted to caution you about the use of the very general term "Charismatic Movement". I am always a bit foggy about what exactly the "Charismatic Movement" was. At any rate, some people say "charismatic" when they mean "spirit-filled", or "I believe God still works miracles today". This is also true of the word "pentecostal". They do not necessarily refer to legalistic weirdos or name-it-claim-its or to people who fall down and roll around. My great-grandfather and grandfather were both "pentecostal" preachers--both very doctrinally correct and both completely sold out to Christ.

I have a family memeber that says she has "renounced the charismatic movement", just as you have said (not that I ever thought she was in it--whatever it is--in the first place). By this she means that she no longer believes that God heals today, that we can walk in the Spirit, or that God is working in our lives in a personal way. I hope you did not mean this?


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Phebe

 2005/1/26 16:37Profile





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