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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Ricky,

I agree towards the 2 questions about infant or child baptism. I would ammend these. But the rest I feel is biblical at this point.

Quote:
**I see this as summarizing Sermon Index. I do not understand how you can have one group of preachers who believe in salvation by faith alone, which clings to the belief of "eternal life" which means you receive life from Christ which will never end - AND THEN - on the other hand you have the other group of preachers who believe it is not "eternal life" but rather life which could end depending upon you and how you live your life.

Those two groups are preaching two different gospels. One is correct, and one is incorrect. OR BOTH are incorrect. They cannot both be correct (and acceptable)



I would consider both things to be true dear brother. John Bunyan in pilgrims progress did not try to explain away verses that were men could lose their salvation but added them as warnings on the narrow way.

Keith Daniel answered this question in his sermon at the last sermonindex conference:

The War With the Most Casualties: The War Between The Saints by Keith Daniel
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=23016&commentView=itemComments

Tim conway also does an excellent job in these 2 messages to address the idea of losing one's salvation:

How Christians Save Christians by Tim Conway
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=2693

A God Sent Message Of Warning by Tim Conway
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=2699

I hope these sermons will help you see more clearly how both views can co-exist and are both biblical.

A good helpful book is: "The Crown and Glory of Christianity, or,
HOLINESS, the Only Way to Happiness" by Thomas Brooks: http://www.gracegems.org/Brooks/crown_and_glory_of_christianity.htm





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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/11/29 8:54Profile
dietolive
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Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: CATECHISM FOR YOUNG CHILDREN

Now this is a great catechism. The wording is similar and the answers are even stronger than the 1855 Methodist Episcopal Church catechism I use for my children.

I don't think I would change anything very much. It is apostolical; refreshingly free from so much of the "reactionism" that has empoisoned the Church since the Reformation.


Regarding Salvation:

We are saved by Grace through Faith; our Good Works attesting to our Salvation. This is the simple Apostolic Faith. Both extremes are excluded: Not only an erring "salvation by works" is excluded, but also an over-reacting "salvation by faith alone" is excluded.


Regarding Infant Baptism:

Regarding the baptism of believer's children, that is something I have had to consider for some time from the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine as it has been held in the Church.

I have the highest respect for and I see the point of my (ana)Baptist Brothers. There are several Scriptures that seem to indicate that believers were baptized and no mention is made of their children being baptized with them.

Yet, I then see that the apostle baptized whole families of believers, in the context of a day when the whole family came into covenant along with a believing parent. I see that Jesus implied that little children are already in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that Paul also said the children of believer's are "holy." I also see that Paul laid much less stress on physical Baptism, as compared to "preaching" and "believing the Gospel."

Yet, the (ana)Baptist system is so simply; could it not be true? Don't baptize anyone unless you are convinced he believes.

At one time, I was tempted to just accept this simple definition..., but then I read again in several places that the apostle baptized "whole families." I cannot in good conscience dispose of these verses by saying "but there is no mention of infants", for mathematically, it is just as likely that there were little children present as not.

Then I consider the ubiquitous existence of infant baptism so early in the record of the early Church... The evidence is all too overwhelming for me to say it can never be done. Therefore, in the end, I cannot condemn the practice of infant baptism, nor will I condemn my brothers in Christ who yet condemn me for my position. I have baptized believer's only, and I have baptized the little children of believers as well.

Believer's baptism is certainly normative. Yet, when I am confronted with believer's who are "addicted to the ministry" of the Gospel, and they request it, I cannot but follow (what appears to me to be) the apostolic practice and baptize their family members as well.

God bless the Reader, and may His peace be with you, whatever your persuasion may be in this case.

Doug

 2011/11/29 10:35Profile
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Thank you for the recommendation dear brother. There is a tremendous PDF version for free download here: http://www.archive.org/details/catechismmethod00churgoog

It is beautifully illustrated also.


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 2011/11/29 11:15Profile
dietolive
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Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: rickyearle

Dear Brother,

You ask:
"I humbly ask this of Q55: this says to me that one can be saved by Jesus then go to hell and be damned because they lead an "unholy" life. What is the standard of this holy life?"

The Law of Christ, as expounded by Himself and His holy apostles.


You ask:
How can one ever know if he will be "holy" enough to be saved, how can one have assurance that he will ever be saved?"

By the two-fold witness of our own spirit, and of God's Spirit, whereby we cry, "Abba Father."


You ask:
"How can anyone reading my words now, boldly say they will be saved at the final day of their life claiming that they will live a holy life unto their death?"

We cannot boldly say anything about ourselves, yet we have this living hope in our God: that He who has begun a good work in us will complete it, and will save us to the uttermost, provided we keep the blessed Gospel in memory, and believe in it to the end.


You say:
"Was there a different precedent for salvation between the OT and NT? Because there are numerous men and women who did not live "holy lives" who are in heaven right now."

No, this essential has remained unchanged between the Covenants: All must repent and believe. And so it was with all the O.T. saints of old. Before death, they repented of their sins, and believed in God, just as our Lord commands us through the mouth of the prophet Ezekiel:

"When a RIGHTEOUS MAN turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them [Natural death]; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he DIE. [Spiritually, just like in the garden...]

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall SAVE his soul alive. [Spiritually.]

Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [Spiritually.] Ezekiel 18:26


You write:
"If this is the definition of repentance than one had better fully explain ALL sins against God in their gospel presentation, which I never see once in the bible."

No dear Brother, one does not. Recall, if you will, the story our Lord gave of the Publican and the Pharisee. You will remember that the Pharisee went to prayer telling the Lord all the good works he did, but the publican simply smote his breast and said "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner." In that one sentence, he repented of all that he knew was wrong, and our Lord Himself tells us that his repentance was complete, for He said that it was the Publican, and not the proud Pharisee, that went away "justified."


You write:
"Those two groups are preaching two different gospels. One is correct, and one is incorrect. OR BOTH are incorrect. They cannot both be correct (and acceptable)"

Actually, it is far safer to stick to Scripture, and let it define our terms, no? Please read I Corinthians 15:1-8. This is the Gospel wherein we stand. All who repent and believe in this Gospel are saved, whatever you or I may think of their soterological theories otherwise.


You write:
"100% I believe that the New Testament speaks clearly on the fact of salvation being "eternal life" and "everlasting life" which Jesus gives to those who believe in him."

We believe likewise, though we affirm that the life [zoe] that Christ gives us is His, "eternal", life. Our possession of it however, is conditioned on repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Like "living" water, dear Brother, that must "keep moving" in order to be "alive", so we must keep believing in order to possess the eternal "zoe" of God.

The manna is another good analogy here, for the ancient Israelites needed to gather every day, or their manna spoiled. Our Lord Jesus is the Bread from Heaven. All who keep “eating His flesh” will keep having His eternal life.


You write:
"Jesus Christ said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand."

Jesus said that. How do you interpret that, those that believe you can lose your salvation? Please I beg you, for this is the gospel."

Salvation is not some "slippery [American] football in the rain." One does not "lose it." Rather, (if one wishes to use the football analogy), one "throws it away" in the act of deliberate sinning. And until he goes and picks the ball up again, he continues without possession of it.

You quoted a part of our Lord's teaching in John 10:28. However, as I have heard said, “a text removed from its context becomes a pretext.” Please read the context you left out in the verse above:

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me...” John 10:27

Question: To whom does our Lord give His eternal life?
Answer: To the sheep that are listening and are following Him.

Dear Reader: Are you following Him in all the light you have? Rest assured in the promise of the Saviour if so, and do keep following Him then to the end.

Do be faithful unto death, and our Lord will give you the Crown of Life.

Be well,
Doug

 2011/11/29 16:01Profile









 Re:

Do not the scriptures teach we live by faith in Jesus and not by sight in our own efforts? In other words do we not live by faith and not by sight?

Blaine Scogin

 2011/11/29 16:51









 Re:


Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 2011/11/29 17:29
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2009


 Re: CATECHISM FOR YOUNG CHILDREN


Excellent catachism! Thanks for posting it.

John Bunyan a credobaptist, said:

“I will not let water baptism be the rule, the door, the bolt, the bar, or the wall of division between the righteous and the righteous, between Christian and fellow Christian.”

John Owen a paedobaptist said (1650):

“Though they (credobaptists) may differ from us in some things of less moment, we are obliged not only to forbear but also to communion with them. For who shall refuse those whom Christ hath received. This and no other is the rule of our evangelical love. To require more is an unwarrantable imposition on their consciences.”

For the record, I myself have baptized my children.

Q&A #57 is proof that the catechism is biblical as it teaches salvation by faith alone.

Q. 57. What is it to believe or have faith in Christ?
A. To trust in Christ alone for salvation.

Q&A #51 is proof that the catachism is biblical as it teaches our being holy is God's doing, shedding more light upon Q&A #55 which some have stumbled over.

Q. 51. What is sanctification?
A. It is God's making sinners holy in heart and conduct.

Q&A #43,44,45,49,52 is proof that the catachism is biblical as it teaches unconditional election and particular or definite atonement.

The Q&A's above, along with the Q&A following are also proof that the catachism is biblical as it teaches that Christ's salvation is an eternal salvation and His sheep(people)shall never perish.

Q. 45. What did Christ undertake in the covenant of grace?
A. To keep the whole law for his people, and to suffer the punishment due to their sins.

CORRECTION to one posters Q&A where he states:

"Question: To whom does our Lord give His eternal life?
Answer: To the sheep that are listening and are following Him."

The answer from my LORD'S mouth is:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. John 17:2

And this is the Father's will who hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39,40

And whoever liveth, and believeth in me, shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:26

Many readers ought to consider and study Q&A #69

Q. 69. Why do you need Christ as a prophet?
A. Because I am ignorant.

 2011/11/29 23:19Profile
dietolive
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Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: savannah

Dear Sister,

Thank you for taking the time to correct what I wrote.

May our Lord richly bless you this day :O)

Be well,
Doug

 2011/11/30 9:54Profile
jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 292


 Re:

My dear Brother Doug

You wrote:
Yet, I then see that the apostle baptized whole families of believers, in the context of a day when the whole family came into covenant along with a believing parent....



I think you are referring to what happened to the household of Cornelius here.

Are you not forgetting that it clearly states that all who were baptised ..
- heard the Word (Acts 10:44)
- the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured on them (Acts 10:44-46)
- were heard speaking with tongues and magnifying God
- were baptised after it was evident they received the Holy Gost. (Acts 10:47)
- were commanded to be baptised by Peter

This does not leave much room for justifying, or condoning Infant baptism, as far as I see it.

Blessings

Joch


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J Kruger

 2011/12/1 5:20Profile
rickyearle
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Joined: 2011/11/13
Posts: 66


 Re:

Thanks for the comments that everyone wrote in response to what I said. Greg, I have heard:

The War With the Most Casualties: The War Between The Saints by Keith Daniel
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=23016&commentView=itemComments

before, though I am going to listen to it again twice through. I plan to watch the conway videos on sunday.

I will comment further on some things in due time.

JOHN 10:28 Is the promise, though, of our Lord Jesus Christ which is irrevocable - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand."

"THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH"

God bless,
ricky

 2011/12/1 20:43Profile





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