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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Doctrine of Adoption... and our security!

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 Re:

Quote:
However, easy-believism which says that once you are saved , you can do anything you want is an extremely virulent heresy.
_And a popular support to this very dangerous belief is the skewed teaching on 'once a son always a son'.



No, thats not true.

The teaching of it is not "skewed"... the understanding of it is.

There is a reason the Bible draws the analogy of sonship and not some other thing which would be less permanent.

But again, I say... if God does not keep us saved, then it is up to us to stay saved and then we have something to boast about. Psalm 5:5 says: The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evil doers."

You will not stand before the throne of grace and tell the Lord all you did to keep yourself saved. He will not share His glory with you.

I agree with the first part tho, easy believism is a scourge.

Krispy

 2011/11/20 7:52









 Re:

By the way, I'm glad that this can be a friendly conversation! It can be a hot button topic with some... but we can all disagree on varying aspects of this and still call one another brothers.

Krispy

 2011/11/20 7:55
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 593


 Re:

Quote:
The teaching of it is not "skewed"... the understanding of it is.



Thanks for the correction, your statement is a more accurate representation of my sentiment.

'Once a son always a son', is a logical conclusion of the reality of the 'doctrine of perseverance of the saints' but many are perverting this wonderful grace.

 2011/11/20 8:14Profile









 Re:

Absolutely!

These doctrines need to be taken back and understood properly, which really not that hard to do with a little study of the Word.

Krispy

 2011/11/20 8:49
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: Krispy

Hi Brother,

Long time, no talk ;O)

I had addressed much of your arguments in previous threads. I don't see what has been answered by your posts, except to repeat strawmen about "losing" salvation "easily", etc.

If we rebel against the light that we have, we must seek the Lord for deliverance in the ways He has prescribed. There is no unconditional protection afforded the sheep who do not repent from rebellion; no unconditional security for the sheep who "are not following Him."

"Son-ship", "adoption", "inheritance", "shipwreck", "hold-on", and many others, are analogous statements in Scripture used to try to convey what our relationship is to God and how we continue in it. Any one of these can be taken too far and be misinterpreted however. Yet it is the totality of them all that we must consider.

For instance, it could be said by one that that "faith saves alone, yet the faith that saves is never alone." - Melenchthon

Truly, according to the total message of the New Testament, we are therefore justified not by a "faith alone", but by faith AND works; by a true "faith that works." No one should be afraid to clearly affirm these Scriptural truths, provided the precedence of both is clearly presented.

Be well,
Doug

 2011/11/20 11:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If we rebel against the light that we have, we must seek the Lord for deliverance in the ways He has prescribed.



My point is... if you are saved you will not live a lifestyle of rebellion against God. Do we sin? Yes, we still sin from time to time... but we do not, nor are we capable or even willing to live in rebellion against the light. Why would we want to?

Thats the difference between a regenerate man and an unregenerate man. This is the key to what I am saying, and what you are not understanding in what I have said.

By the way, just calling something a "strawman" doesnt make it so. It has been said on here (not by you) that we lose our salvation every time we sin.

Not every post or thread I write is directed at you, brother. :-)

Krispy

 2011/11/20 16:24
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

i agree with you krispy

even the profesing false christan who apears to be in christ but is realy not

having a form of godlyness but dening the power
and from such turn away said paul

the bible calles them false bretheren

having not the spirit

and they are not his
he doesnt know them in the contex of a true relaionship

they defenity are only serving one master
the spirit of the prince o the power of the air ,the spirit which worketh in the children of desobedance

satan would be the more common name used for this decetfull cherub

who is the arch enemy of all that is good

but he knows his time is now short ,so he is romeing around like a lion seeking whom he may devour

the lords sheep resist him sted fast in the faith
jesus said my sheep hear ,MY VOICE,and THEY follow ME
iknow them ,and to these I GIVE ETURNAL LIFE ,and they shall never PERISH
neither shall any one PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND

ALL WHOM THEE FATHER has giver our lord ,WILL COME TO HIM
and he will in no wise cast them out

ohh the power of god in the salvation of his elect

all the glory and praise toward god ,,and his sovern mercy

this is contraversal to say this , but my faith rests in a god who saves all whom he chooses to save

oh amasing grace how sweet

that is the grace of god freely givern and efectual in its perpose,and defenition,and irasisable to his sheep ,but rejected by goats wolves in sheep skins

this is the will of him that sent me that i lose none of whom the father has givern ,BUT I SHALL RAISE THEM UP IN THE LAST DAY
and jesus always does the will father ,always

but we must make our calling and election sure
and test our selfs ,to see weather we are in the faith

but jesus said you will know them by there fruits

and we all know what the fruit of the spirit
for it is writtern ,,and iam confedent . that we are growing in this fruit ,,and i pray it will ripen as we grow ,,,

from ME COMES YOUR FRUIT
FOR HE IS AUTHOR and the FINISHER OF OUR FAITH

the producer and the director ,of the story that will never ever end \


can jesus realy lose some of who come to him and fail to raise him up in the last day

or is the scripture true when it says

this is the will of the father that i lose none who he has givern me , but i will raise him up in the last day

my memory is no that good

if you all dont mind ,may i go through the gosple of john and post the scripture im refuring too

im glad we dont have agrue about this

i respect those who believ that they might one day lose there salvation ,,,,and i understand why they believe that

i did believe that too

but was allways afraid of falling ,,i was never at peace

that is just my experance

i would aperaciate if some of the wise minds ,would give me there interprtation on the securaty verses in the gosple of john ,,,,,,,,if i have time to day ,ill post some verses
bless you all and me in the bond of peace

 2011/11/22 2:35Profile









 Re:

Gary... thanx for your post. We have more common ground that I had originally thought!

You hit on something at the end that I find to be very important and VERY true. You said as long as you believed you could lose your salvation you never had any peace.

That was MY experience as well. I used to believe like that, and you are correct... there is NO peace.

Yet, the peace of Christ is supposed to be beyond comprehension. How can it be if we are concerned or afraid that we might blow it?

Now, if someone believes they are saved and believes they are secure, yet they live a sinful life, they had better be concerned and have NO peace because the fact is: THEY ARE NOT TRULY SAVED! As the Bible says: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." (1 John 2:19 ESV)

I find absolute peace since I've come to understand that Bible concerning election and never being able to be seperated from the love of God.

Thanks for sharing, brother!

Krispy

 2011/11/22 5:25
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1886


 Re: justified


Thus saith the man:

"Truly, according to the total message of the New Testament, we are therefore justified not by a "faith alone", but by faith AND works..."

Thus saith the LORD:

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh, is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man to whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith, which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they are not circumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also;
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had being yet uncircumcised.
For the promise that he should be the heir of the world was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of no effect.
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all;
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations) before him whom he believed, even God, who reviveth the dead, and calleth those things which are not, as though they were.
Who against hope believed with hope, that he should become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about a hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb.
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded, that what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it will be imputed, if we believe on him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
Who was delivered for our offenses, and raised again for our justification. Romans 4

 2011/11/22 8:52Profile
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: savannah

Quote:
"Thus saith the man:

"Truly, according to the total message of the New Testament, we are therefore justified not by a "faith alone", but by faith AND works..."

Thus saith the LORD:

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness..."

Amen Sister!

Be well,
Doug

 2011/11/22 9:21Profile





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