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Joyful_Heart
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Joined: 2009/12/8
Posts: 1795


 Re:

What Christian wouldn't want it?

 2011/12/1 9:06Profile
dspks
Member



Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 167
Dakotas

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?

It's not a matter of "asking" but "appropriating" !!!!

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

 2011/12/1 9:48Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

"Judge yourself based on this to see where you stand. If you keep struggling with same sin again and again then you need Baptism of Holy Spirit."

I dont think the Baptism gives a believer a leg up in the battle against sin, I beleive that a life of holiness is a function of the indwelling of the Spirit.

THe baptism is another function that empowers beleivers.
.
I say this from personal experience.
I thought after the baptism I had something to help me fight sin more but I then I was humbled when I realized I didnt, it was still the same struggle. God has been showing that I need to let Him into more areas of my life in order for me to gain victory.

Though these things are separate I beleive that they are CONNECTED

Power and Purity!
interesting that Paul says to TImothy a Spirirt of Power, Love and self discipline.

In that order

I think just like a clogged up pipe will hinder the amount of water that can go through and contaminate it

likewise a vessel that is not pure and set apart will do the same thing when he/she ministers. THe person receiving will get both the flaws of the person and God and this will be conter productive

 2011/12/1 10:26Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,now lets see; do i want more of God in my life? mmmm do i want more from God in my life?mmmm hard question if you don't know God.jimp

 2011/12/1 10:40Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: I dont think the Baptism gives a believer a leg up in the battle against sin, I beleive that a life of holiness is a function of the indwelling of the Spirit.

This statement is a oxymoron as you contradict what your saying “life of holiness is a function of the indwelling of the Spirit” meaning to me if you have the Holy Spirit then you should be able to live a Holy Life and “I dont think the Baptism gives a believer a leg up in the battle against sin” if the Holy Spirit empowers you to live a Holy life then should have the upper hand against sin?

See in the scripture below two different times that the disciples received the Holy Spirit. Know what I believe and I include myself in what I write is that most Chritains have “Received the Holy Spirit” but have not been “filled with Holy Spirit”

John 20:21-22 21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2: 2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

I come to that conclusion when I look at my heart and the way I live, as I believe if you have the Holy Spirit then you should live a Holy Life, I should be one who loves God with all his heart and loves people like he loves himself.. but I find I don’t live that life and I put “myself” first rather than God or people…

By Gods grace before going to church (It was 2 months later that I went) I received the Spirit, before getting into bed I said a simple prayer “God change me as I am fed up being this way” when I lay on the bed a physical wind left me and another physical wind blew into me after which I sat up and spoke in a unknown tounge…from that point in my life I started to change, now I do not write that testimony to boast but to let you know a bit of my background…

So I find that my life is a oxymoron a contradiction why because I have received the Holy Spirt but don’t live a Holy life…So the fault can’t be with God so the fault must be with me and what I believe.
This why I have come to change my thinking as I didnt really have what I thought I had…

Acts 15:8-9 And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

If I had been filled with the Holy Spirit I should have a clean heart, but I cannot claim to have a pure heart, I cannot claim to have to be have given the Holy Spirit and that he has cleansed my heart by faith as Paul said to the Corinthians “If I speak with tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal, And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing”

Love suffers long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil. beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things Love never faileth.

I do not suffer long, I have unkind thoughts, I envy, I do promote myself, I do have have pride, I seek my own way, I can be provoked, I hold grudges, I don’t bear all things, I don’t believe all things, hope fails, I try to escape rather than endure.

So I must come to the conclusion that “I AM NOTHING”

Should I ask for the Holy Spirit yes for sure but I ask that he would come and cleanse my heart by faith, that I would walk in the more excellent way as love is the fulfilment of the law.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. Rom 8:2

Free from the law of sin and of death now that sounds like a leg up against sin………..

That the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:4 Love is the fulfilment of the law, God comes first we love him with all our heart, we love people just like ourselves this happens when the Holy Spirit cleanses the heart by faith. The Holy Spirit puts away anger, wrath, malice, railing and he puts on a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another and above all these things he puts on love, which is the bond of perfectness.


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Colin Murray

 2011/12/1 18:13Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hey murrcolr

I think you may have misunderstood what I am saying?

Quote:
"This statement is a oxymoron as you contradict what your saying “life of holiness is a function of the indwelling of the Spirit” meaning to me if you have the Holy Spirit then you should be able to live a Holy Life and “I dont think the Baptism gives a believer a leg up in the battle against sin” if the Holy Spirit empowers you to live a Holy life then should have the upper hand against sin?"

Basically yes Holy Spirit enables you to live Holy.
BUT what Im saying is that as you said there is a difference between receiving the HS and being filled (Baptised)they do not always come together (as mentioned before)

Everyone receives the HOly Spirit when they are truly born again this is what allows someone to live Holy and grow into holiness!This is the indwelling.

The Baptism of the Spirit (or filling) as you call it gives someone the POWER they need to be an effective witness

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Acts 1:8

This is what is mentioned in Acts
Key word here is POWER the believers before this were clearly saved but had not received the POWER they needed.

I hope this clear things up?
SO what I am saying is that someone who has the Baptism is enpowered to witness but still has the same struggle or battle with sin as someone who is not.

It is sorta like this:
A soldier wearing armour and a soldier wearing armour with a sword

the armour on both is still the same but one can fight the other cannot and the one who fights has to be even more careful because he is in the battle and a threat to the enemy!
Two cars are started same make and model, both at full tank
On of the car ge

 2011/12/1 22:40Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: Murrcolr

Quote:

If I had been filled with the Holy Spirit I should have a clean heart, but I cannot claim to have a pure heart, I cannot claim to have to be have given the Holy Spirit and that he has cleansed my heart by faith as Paul said to the Corinthians “If I speak with tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal, And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing”


Excellent testimony. I encourage everyone to read his testimony, this is in accordance with the word of God independent of any made theology. I am happy that I have found someone who believes that the word of God will be our testimony also. I pray that you will abide with Jesus as you abide in his teachings.

Just to add apoint, Baptism of Holy Spirit is an everyday activity, you need to seek it everyday. Then only we have have a powerful testimony that will bare fruits for God.


I also encourage everyone to listen to this sermon by Brother Zac Poonan on Baptism of Holy Spirit.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=19838


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Sreeram

 2011/12/2 10:28Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 529
America's Heartand

 Re:

I think many people may not have caught the difference of the Spirit WITHIN and the Spirit UPON in scripture.

When a person is born again the Holy Spirit comes to abide WITHIN them. That is true for every believer. A fruit of the Spirit that is born of the Holy Spirit living within us is self control. Taking dominion (self control) over sinfulness is certainly a fruit born of that indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a totally different issue. It has nothing to do with our salvation. It is a anointing of power UPON us. This power is not for us...it is for OTHERS. We are empowered to BE witnesses.

It is important to note the differences in scripture of the Holy Spirit WITHIN us and the Holy Spirit UPON us. They are different things given for different reasons. One is to develop Christ likeness and character within our lives. The other is to enable us to effectively minister to others. That is why there have been some who exhibited great ministry power yet were not of great fruit and character in their life. AA Allen was mentioned...there are many, many more...think in terms of Samson as a Biblical example. Conversely there are many with great fruit and character within their lives that exhibit none of the ministry power of God at all. It should be obvious that God wants us to be people bearing much fruit of the Spirit accompanied by great power of the Spirit to reach the world in His name. It isn't a "this OR that"..God wants it to be a "this AND that".

It is VERY fruitful in this area for a person to do a study of The Holy Spirit WITHIN and compare it to references to The Holy Spirit UPON.

It seems to me that the vast majority of misunderstanding on this topic comes from not understanding this distinction. Go through the Gospels, and the book of Acts, marking each time each one is referenced. Note what the purpose was for in that case and what circumstances or scripture insights surround it in the text. You will begin to find a marked difference in the Spirit WITHIN and the Spirit UPON.

Perhaps I am getting old and a bit cynical... but I fear that not one person will actually do the work and due diligence to follow through on the suggestion. Although it is certainly wisdom to do so, I fear very few will actually extract the balance of truth about this topic from The Gospels and Acts. I genuinely hope so... however, my experience has been that virtually no one does that. They simply continue to give their preconceived opinions and look for a proof text to support what they have already decided to believe.

Forgive me if that is overly negative or pessimistic. I do not want it to be. However, Greg's thread a few days ago about the lack of unity spoke to my heart and it seems that this is one of those topics.

If you do a study such as this also take note of the examples of one "baptism" and multiple "fillings" to the same people in Acts.

Blessings.

 2011/12/2 11:23Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re: Solomon101

Hey Solomon101,

Thank you for your explanation it was very helpful!
I have noted the differences between in and upon in the bible. More so comparing and contrasting OT vs NT but thank you for pointing that out it has opened my eyes to see it within the NT as well definitely a new dimension in God's Word I did not see before!.

With what Solomon101 said in mind
Might I ask the question

How does one grow both in holiness and power?
This is an area I struggle with and for myself I think that I cannot bring myself to minister if I am not living holy though the gifting is still in me.

As mentioned before some people had one more than the other.... but both are needed!

You advice through the Spirit would be very much appreciated!

In Christ
Evangel

 2011/12/2 14:11Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

This power is not for us...it is for OTHERS. We are empowered to BE witnesses.



With all respect for you,

I would encourage you to read this word that you yourself marked in bold carefully, which is to BE witness (Acts 1:8). Jesus did not mention that we will BEAR witness to him; he said we will BE his Witness. There is a difference between two, to BE a witness means we will be a living witness in other words our being itself is a witness. To bear witness means we will witness the work of Jesus in our words for others as noted by you.
Quote:

That is why there have been some who exhibited great ministry power yet were not of great fruit and character in their life



Such scenarios are possible but neither such a person nor his ministry is any value to God. For example if I myself is not saved from Sin which means the life of Jesus is not working in me, then with the power of my presentation skills I try to present this life to others in my ministry, then it is like wrapping up a CD Player that is NOT WORKING for me in a nice attractive GIFT WRAP and presenting it to others. They may accept that gift because of external attraction but when they try to use it, it will not work for them as well. How is God getting benefitted by such work?

There are so many such preachers today in our midst. I have witnessed few in this forum as well. The problem with all of them is after they received the power they failed to abide with Jesus to use this power for being his witness, instead they used it only for baring witness, why because they get paid for such powerful words that they deliver, popularity etc. Again it is the problem with people who fail to use the power correctly instead of God not empowering them.
Brother Zac Poonan clearly talks about these scenarios in the message that I have posted in this thread.


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Sreeram

 2011/12/2 14:27Profile





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