SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?

Quote:
Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?


I just wanted to add that the Holy Spirit is not an ‘it,’ the Holy Spirit is a person and a ‘Him.’ He has a personality! He can be grieved. Jesus addressed him as ‘him’....
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) ~John 7:39
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ~John 14:17

As Jesus said, ‘he is with us but he SHALL BE in us’ to me that points to a second baptism. So yes, wilkens21, we should ask for Him and EXPECT to receive Him. I would hope that you would post what you believe too!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/19 5:51Profile
wilkens21
Member



Joined: 2011/11/4
Posts: 4


 Re:

Sorry I've been slow in responding and thanks for the responses. I almost regretting asking the question after hitting the submit button to be honest.

This is not really a discussion in my opinion about tongues/healings (at least from my mind).

I actually had a roommate who prayed in tongues and his family got involved with that holy laughter/toronto airport stuff (which I believe is not from the Lord), and visited charismatic churches and have seen (what I think are) supernatural things. So I've seen these "gifts" abused and put me more on the cessationist camp for my years as a Christian.

Anyway, I was listening to John Piper's biography of Martyn Lloyd-Jones which got me thinking about this more. If you have an hour, listen to it, it's a very good, balanced approach to what he (MLJ) thought. And MLJ is considered very orthodox from my understanding:

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/biographies/a-passion-for-christ-exalting-power

And was reading Samuel Chadwick's The Way to Pentecost which is a free book you can download from various places. It's a good book I think, and I like L Ravenhill a lot so was curious about what his seminary teacher and the man who helped shaped his ministry thought.

I know MLJ battled folks who he thought were "quenching" the Spirit. MLJ wasn't about tongues/miracles either in terms of what I "think" he was getting at with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But I think he thought it was seperate from regeneration.

But MLJ also saw the modern charismatic movement in his day as lacking since doctrine/repentance wasn't high on the list. I think he'd throw up if he saw what was happening now with the Word of Faith stuff....

Back to the point...

Reading the biography about Brother Yun (The Heavenly Man), and seeing unbelieveable miracles/signs in the midst of deep persecution that we in the West DO NOT go through. How do I reconcile that, are they from God or not? I am not sure I can do easily dismiss from a cessationist point of view that these are not real miracles.

Who am I to say the Lord has stopped doing anything when we in the West don't suffer like those who are in complete darkness. I cannot say that.

To be honest, I am not sure what I am asking and have been praying about it quite a bit.

I want to grow and mature, and for many years have been praying that the Spirit as "power" rather than a Person. Which I think is wrong on my part, and Chadwick's book has been helping me to think differently.

The question is does the baptism of the Holy Spirit, give a deeper insight into Who the Lord is (without seeking the power like people do for the wrong reasons)? Is it seperate from regeneration? Church historians/theologians have battled this for a long time. :)

 2011/11/22 11:53Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: wilkens21

Quote:
wilkens21
Reading the biography about Brother Yun (The Heavenly Man), and seeing unbelievable miracles/signs in the midst of deep persecution that we in the West DO NOT go through. How do I reconcile that, are they from God or not? I am not sure I can do easily dismiss from a cessationist point of view that these are not real miracles.

Who am I to say the Lord has stopped doing anything when we in the West don't suffer like those who are in complete darkness. I cannot say that.



About your cessationist leaning... this is why I don’t believe in labels or boxes... because if God steps off the beaten path of our label, we’re lost!

Back to your point of no miracles in the west....I was reading a book by Mahesh Chavda on fasting and he said something that I have repeated several times to different people.... “People would ask him why God doesn’t do the miracles here in the west that He does in the third world countries and he said, ‘because the west has health insurance.’” You may not like the man himself but that statement is a profound and true statement... we have no need to seek God first because we run to the doctors.

And to me personally, America’s health care crisis has had me wondering if this crisis is not Obama’s doings but God’s doing... trying to re-center us again around Him. Everyone’s clamoring for health insurance when they should be clamoring around His cross and His word. If the Word of God is good enough to live by then it’s good enough to die by; correct?

Quote:
wilkens21
The question is does the baptism of the Holy Spirit, give a deeper insight into Who the Lord is (without seeking the power like people do for the wrong reasons)? Is it separate from regeneration? Church historians/theologians have battled this for a long time. :)


Yes and yes! There is insight but one must cultivate it, the Holy Spirit does open the Scriptures up so much more after the baptism, but one has to continue to read the Word and study it; not think they have it all and lay it aside which sadly many have done. (edit: "The letter kills but the Spirit gives life" is so true!)

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience although it doesn’t have to be. Let me explain, I have heard of some who have been born again AND received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (with tongues) at the same time. But if you’ve already been born again and THEN have heard about it and you seek it, then to you it will be a separate experience.

Quote:
wilkens21
Church historians/theologians have battled this for a long time. :)


Now this is just Lisa’s opinion but to me the only ones arguing about it are the ones who have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and are arguing to justify their beliefs about it. The Lord showed me that when a person has received, all their arguments cease; they know they received and they are satisfied. It’s the one’s (historians/theologians) that haven’t that keep on battling! Does that make sense as well?

These are just my experiences and what the Lord has shown me, I hope you receive all your answers from the Lord.
God bless you,
Lisa

Edited so hopefully it makes more sense!! LOL (


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/29 20:09Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

i believe men like weasly ,whitfield ,and edwards ,were cesasenists,,,,,but undoubtly experanced the baptism of the spirit ,revivel followed those men ,and they new the power of god

 2011/11/29 20:32Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

how i understand it is weasly believed in the seconed blessing , whitfied believed the seconed blessing was the true new birth ,and was realy the first true blessing ,,,,but denied certaint gifts of the holy spirit ,,,,that was the common stand ,was only to denie certaint miraculas and sign gifts


they didnt believe in toungs ,nor that a person could have a special gift of healing ,but they believed god could stil heal

well this is too my knowlage

iv never heard of a calvinist dening all of the gifts of the spirit

 2011/11/29 20:35Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

The thread question was-

Baptism of the Holy Spirit... should we ask for it?

Scripture Responds - If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to THOSE WHO ASK HIM? Luke 11:13 NIV

Simple enough isn't it?

If a person wants it... then they should ask for it!

Lysa is spot on concerning her thoughts on having experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

To quote Leonard Ravenhill on the same thought he often stated, " A person with an experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument".

Blessings!

(caps mine for emphasis only - no yelling was intended)

 2011/11/29 21:21Profile
rorichts
Member



Joined: 2011/2/7
Posts: 47
Central Iowa

 Re:

may I suggest this as reading material on the subject

Straight to the point and sound for doctrine
should be mandatory reading for every true believer

Mortification by John Owen

http://www.oldlandmarks.com/owmortto.htm


_________________
Robert Richtsmeier

 2011/11/30 10:17Profile









 Re: Rorichts

Are you addressing the mortification thread or the baptism thread? The link looks like it woukd be better suited to mortification.

Blaine

 2011/11/30 11:22
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: wilkens21

Quote:
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience although it doesn’t have to be. Let me explain, I have heard of some who have been born again AND received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (with tongues) at the same time. But if you’ve already been born again and THEN have heard about it and you seek it, then to you it will be a separate experience.


Yes, I know I’m quoting myself and I apologize but it is only to make a point. In the above quote where I stated “I have heard of some”... one of these is Jackie Pullinger and I provided a link to her sermons below.

If I remember correctly, she would instruct people BEFORE they got saved that they were going to say the sinner’s pray and then they would receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues or prophesy! And they would be saved and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit!! I think she talks about it in her sermon “Chasing the Dragon Part 1 and 2.”

And I know personally of one who experienced this, my cousin gave his life to the Lord one minute and was speaking in tongues the next and worshiping the Lord!

I'm coming to believe that when we only provide ½ of God’s provisions for a new born babe, then ½ is what they’ll receive and shame on us if ½ is only what we give them.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=117

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/30 12:49Profile
rorichts
Member



Joined: 2011/2/7
Posts: 47
Central Iowa

 Re:

no it is for this thread also, after all that is the purpose for the Holy Spirit. So why would question the need for the Holy Spirit or segment HIS ways and means of accomplishing HIS purpose?

After all salvation is about conversion, being changed from Glory to Glory,taking up our cross and following HIM, death to all that is not HIM, and being conformed into HIS image.

Without the Spirit all one is left with is a deception of going some place.


_________________
Robert Richtsmeier

 2011/11/30 18:06Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy