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wilkens21
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Joined: 2011/11/4
Posts: 4


 Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?


Been reading Samuel Chadwick (Ravenhill's teacher at seminary), along with some of Martyn Lloyd-Jones' material.

As some of you know, they both believed that the baptism of the Spirit is SEPARATE from the indwelling of the Spirit during regeneration (when you are saved). And it didn't mean to ask for gift of tongues, etc either from what I have been gathering...

They both believe (I think) this is also separate from how it's intepreted from the modern charismatic movement

I know there are cessationists here who would disagree with Chadwick/Lloyd-Jones, but I'm curious as to what folks think.

 2011/11/17 14:48Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3395
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?


Brother wilkens21,

I don’t think anyone is ignoring you because we disagree with you ....but you should know that we have just come off the heels of like… 5 different threads on the baptism of the Holy Spirit! You just missed them but here they are…..

Truth about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=41571&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

Baptism of the Holy Spirit
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41568&forum=34&5

Speaking in Tongues
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41360&forum=36&52

Counterfeit or Genuine Tongues?
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41535&post_id=301488&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=0&forum=36#301488

Not all receive the Holy Spirit, because not all ask to receive it!
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41331&forum=36&32


It’s about 50/50 here on this issue but you might want to read through these threads to see where we stand and give us a month or two to regather our wits about us!!! (huge grin) lol

God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2011/11/18 0:54Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?

Instead of going through these threads, ask God to give you the wisdom.

The only mark of Baptism of Holy Spirit is victory over sin. Which means if the Holy SPirit shows you a sin in your life that you did not know before, you should be able to overcome that sin and repent immediately. This does not mean that you will not have sin, we all still have so many unconscious sins in our life that we are not aware of. But if you are made aware of then you should be able to give it up immediately.
Judge yourself based on this to see where you stand. If you keep struggling with same sin again and again then you need Baptism of Holy Spirit.
Different people get this Baptism of Holy Spirit at different time. I got it when I hit the rock bottom of my struggles and I have heard men of God like Brother Zac Poonan saying that they got it when they hit the rock bottom as well.
But there are people who get this power immediately after their first Baptism, like sister Lisa here. This all makes be believe that God cannot be constrained to work in us in a specific way.


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Sreeram

 2011/11/18 10:41Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3395
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by Sree
The only mark of Baptism of Holy Spirit is victory over sin.


Brother, with all due respect but I've got to call you on this... where is the above quote found in Scripture?

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/18 11:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3395
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit...should we ask for it?

Quote:
by wilkens21 on 2011/11/17 11:48:38


Been reading Samuel Chadwick (Ravenhill's teacher at seminary), along with some of Martyn Lloyd-Jones' material.

As some of you know, they both believed that the baptism of the Spirit is SEPARATE from the indwelling of the Spirit during regeneration (when you are saved). And it didn't mean to ask for gift of tongues, etc either from what I have been gathering...

They both believe (I think) this is also separate from how it's intepreted from the modern charismatic movement

I know there are cessationists here who would disagree with Chadwick/Lloyd-Jones, but I'm curious as to what folks think.


I do not dabble in cessationist talk but do YOU believe or agree with a second baptism or not? Please do not be a 'one-hit (post) wonder.'

Let's get your opinion on the matter!!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/18 11:27Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

Brother, with all due respect but I've got to call you on this... where is the above quote found in Scripture?



To be frank I do not know any scripture that directly proves me right. It is an interpretation of different scriptures and mainly based on personal experience of Holy Spirit and his work.

John 14-16:-
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you

1 John 2-27:-
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Jesus says that the purpose of Holy Spirit is a helper for us to keep his commands. The Holy Spirit teaches us truth based on both the scriptures and though which we abide in him(Jesus). And Jesus said in John 8:32 that this truth will set us free. Free of What? Free of Sin that separated us from God before.

1 John 3-6:-
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

So the main purpose of Holy Spirit is to seal us with him. And based on John 3-6, if we are sealed or abide with him then we cannot live in Sin or in other words we will have victory over sin.

So what do you think is the sign of Baptism of Holy Spirit?




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Sreeram

 2011/11/18 12:11Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

Sree -

YOU STATED- So what do you think is the sign of Baptism of Holy Spirit?

I RESPOND- It is specifically POWER to be a witness. Jesus states this exactly in Acts 1:8. IT STATES, " But you will receive POWER when the Holy Spirit comes UPON you; and you will be my WITNESSES in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

I think you, and many people, may not have caught the difference of the Spirit WITHIN and the Spirit UPON.

When a person is born again the Holy Spirit comes to abide WITHIN them. That is true for every believer. A fruit of the Spirit that is born of the Holy Spirit living within us is self control. Taking dominion (self control) over sinfulness (as you related) is certainly a fruit born of that indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a totally different issue. It has nothing to do with our salvation. It is a anointing of power UPON us. This power is not for us...it is for OTHERS. We are empowered to BE witnesses.

It is important to note the differences in scripture of the Holy Spirit WITHIN us and the Holy Spirit UPON us. They are different things given for different reasons. One is to develop Christlikeness and character within our lives. The other is to enable us to effectively minister to others.

Duncan Campbell, the key figure in the Hebrides Revivals, has several messages on this very thing on the site. I would encourage you to perhaps hear those. In addition.. simply read the book of Acts and note the differences of when it says the Holy Spirit was WITHIN or UPON them and what the differences were. Then read the New Testament as a whole looking for the same things. It will revolutionize your understanding of the ministry of The Holy Spirit. He is such a wonderful strengthener, encourager, revealer of what is needed, empowerer of us to do what is needed at the moment....He is The Paraclete and I love Him dearly.

CAPS were used only to emphasis certain words. No yelling was intended.

Blessings!

 2011/11/18 12:35Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3395
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Sree

Quote:
by Sree:
So what do you think is the sign of Baptism of Holy Spirit?


I got your number, Sree!!! Hehe You are not pulling me into an argument about the ‘sign(s)’ of the Holy Spirit!!! But since our last talk on that topic I have been studying the Scriptures and will have more later-on but back to the point at hand.....

My concern is not over any particular sign or signs of the Holy Spirit but with your original statement of, “THE ONLY MARK of Baptism of Holy Spirit is ....” Logically speaking, you are saying there is “ONLY ONE” sign of the baptism and it is on that point only that I disagreed with you.

You ended your first post in this thread with, “This all makes be believe that God cannot be constrained to work in us in a specific way.” And that’s all I’m trying to say brother! I believe it to be misleading to say there is only one sign and I don’t believe that God can be constrained to one sign.... that is all!

God bless you brother,
Lisa

PS: I've got to get ready for work... didn't want you to think I would ignore you if I don't answer!


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Lisa

 2011/11/18 12:41Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Brother Solomon,

Thanks a lot for this post.
If I understand you correctly, the first Baptism is Holy Spirit coming inside to do the will of God and the 2nd baptism is Holy Spirit coming upon us like the time of OT like 'the spirit of Lord Came upon Samson'.

SO you must then agree with all my post because I have talked from the perspective of HolY Spirit living or abiding in us and bringing Christlikeness. So the proof of Holy Spirit LIVING INSIDE you is Christlikeness. Is it safe to say this?

Now my understanding of Acts 1:8-
Jesus says when you receive power from Holy Spirit, you will be my witness. There is a difference between BEING WINTESS and TO WITNESS. Being Witness means, your life itself is a witness for Jesus. It is not just the word you speak or share in streets or Church. It is whole life that will be a witness. If Jesus had said that you will witness me, then it means we will be able to talk about Jesus and testify about him everywhere without fear, similar to what you have quoted.
So according to be to Be A Witness for Jesus (to live a life witnessing Jesus) is much higher standard and requires higher power than to just go and preach in streets. By saying this I am not reducing the value of testifying about Jesus to others. I have seen many who can preach powerful sermons but their inner life is nothing like Jesus.
I just posted my understanding of Acts 1:8. I am not posting to oppose your view or to hurt you.


_________________
Sreeram

 2011/11/18 13:04Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, in justification it is clear that the Holy spirit emerses you in Jesus which is the fulfillment of passover. in the fulfillment of pentacost, Jesus emmerses you in the Holy Ghost luke 3:16 . the biblical promise is you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you. as recorded in many places in acts this was accompanied by other evidences... that what we see and hear...a few times it was unknown tongues as evidence...we are never to seek evidence,but seek the Holy Spirit and all or anything that He might fuel us with... i see no problem with seeking all that God has for you as you walk out your life with Him on the earth.jimp

 2011/11/18 17:53Profile





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