| Following Jesus and no man|
Inspired by KK I am making this a post of it own.
There are many who say they don't follow any man except Jesus Christ. Some people become very adamant about this to the point of thinking themselves to be very spiritual.
Practically speaking what does this look like? Technically speaking this should then be focused only on Jesus words according to the NT and the 4 gospels because after all, beyond the 4 gospels it is Paul mostly writing. Paul would be the same as any preacher. Paul isn't Jesus. Only we would say he is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The same would be said of the OT writers.
So, to those who want to be Jesus only in focus, what are your comments on this?
| 2011/11/13 10:54||Profile|
| Re: Following Jesus and no man|
I'm glad you started this! This is a very important topic these days. There is a movement today among Christians that say "I just stick with the red letters".
| 2011/11/13 11:13|
| Re: |
hi, although i am a strong advocate fo new christians to read john, matthew mark luke and john again before they do anything else , i am not exclusive red letter. i live around a lot of bible shool students and a lot know romans but do not know Jesus. they have the relationship of the parents or pastor or famous evangelist but not much of their own.read the red and you will not end up dead.jimp
| 2011/11/13 20:30||Profile|
| Re: |
What you say is very big but do you know what you say is true for sure? I am referring to the students knowing alot of Romans but not Jesus. What causes you to make that statement?
I was listening to a podcast dealing with feminism from a fundamentalist preacher and he mentioned something I found thought provoking. He said a preacher came across a woman preacher while visiting a church and asked where the preacher was. She said she was the preacher. He said he didn't know woman could be ordained as preachers. She said that Paul didn't call her but God did. Seeming to separate the words of Paul from the word of Jesus. Now, this could be liberal thought applied to it or it could be true words or wisdom.
In an instance such as that do we say this woman is wrong? Or is she wrong in her explanation? Or is there something else at play here?
I also wonder, if people studied the words of Jesus from the gospel in the context of the story he is relating to, do you suppose christian would find more grace in their hearts towards one another and towards those who aren't christians? By the mere fact of how Jesus responds to people.
Let me give you a small example of what I could mean. Jesus said of the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more while others sought to stone here. In meditating on this what would go through your heart and mind. Compassion? Let's say it was compassion-would you then extend that compassion to people you might personally know who are doing this?
Let's take Paul now- he says do not fellowship with those in adultery and neither will adulterers enter the kingdom of heaven. Now, in my reading what he says is true but how do WE as CHRISTIANS react to that statement. Do we react in condemnation similiar to the GODHATESFAGS crowd or do you continue to show compassion?
Those who would be fundamentalist, I think. react more to a Pauline scripture where there is a combination of love, grace and talk of condemnation but the flesh life tends to grip to that condemnation and holding fast to everything that is said in the Word without extending grace to any soul.
Does this make sense?
| 2011/11/14 15:53||Profile|
| Re: |
If you want to follow Jesus and only Jesus you will read the WHOLE BIBLE and nothing less.
Jesus IS the Word (John 1:1) and ALL scripture is breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16). In other words Jesus wrote the whole Bible!
Therefore if you just read MMLJ and ignore everything else, you are ignoring CHRIST and HIS teachings.
Red lettered Bibles are for this reason unbiblical. I have nothing against highlighting Christ's words in red, but have EVERYTHING against the impression it creates that the only thing important are Christ's words in bodily form.
| 2011/11/14 16:01||Profile|
| Re: |
The whole bible you mean both OT and NT? Do we use the whole of the OT as well or is it only for historical purposes? There is alot of bad stuff that took place in the OT even according to some of the laws. Do we abide by them?
Also, something I have wondered in the process, what is it about some christians who say they live solely by the bible yet they have don't have much grace and love for their fellow man? Is holding hard to the reading of scripture the intent of Jesus? Even in the smallest of things such as women wearing jewelry and the woman being told to be silent in church? Is Jesus a fundamentalist in this way?
Some would say read Jesus words in the gospels. What I do find ironic is that the only people Jesus has ought against are the Pharisees because they were a stiffnecked people. Very very religious but the first ones to point the fingers at sinners. In the NT outside of the gospel Paul combines a gospel of grace and love but also mentions those who go to hell.
Have much of a fundamental attitude should we take, in the bible to allow Jesus to love through us vs holding ourselves so steadfast in the Word that allow not room for love though some think they do love because they hold the Word in high regard.
Does this make any sense? Am I rambling again?
| 2011/11/15 15:46||Profile|
| Re: Spirit behind word|
The reason we find difficulty in accepting OT is we never understood the spirit of NT. When you follow Jesus you start understanding the spirit with which he did things. No Bible scholar can teach you the spirit behind God's word except God alone.
For example, Sabbath is the most misunderstood word in OT, Jesus Kept Sabbath more than any Pharisee but they did not realize it. He actually kept the spirit of Sabbath, which is to do the will of God on the 7th Day. Since he did it all day, he does not need to keep that 7th Day alone. Even when his disciples eat grain on Sabbath, he did not stop them because he knew they are doing God's will which is to follow Jesus and be his disciple.
Similarly, in case of adulterous women, Jesus, did not break the law by saving her. The law clearly states that the adulterous women should be stonned. But the spirit of law is to throw stone when you are prefect according to law. But none of the Pharisees were perfect according to law. So he asked them to throw the stone only if they were without sin. Again he did not stop them from keeping the law but enforced the hidden spirit behind the law, which is you be righteous before Judging others.
So when a person receives Holy Spirit and starts reading the word with the influence of Holy Spirit, he will never take the literal meaning of word like how Pharisees took, but will learn the Spirit behind the word like how Jesus took it.
True mark of a man filled with Holy Spirit is he will consider every word of God written for him. He will never differentiate the word saying this is from Jesus, this is from Paul etc. Also he will never say this word is written for unbelievers and this is written for believers etc.
| 2011/11/15 16:36||Profile|
| Re: Following Jesus and no man|
Yes I agree with what you guys are trying to say!
We are not following a set of doctrines but a living PERSON JESUS however He is found in the WHOLE bible not just the gospels He is the WORD all of it.
Heres my 2 cents on it:
It is not the Bible itself which allows someone to know God but the Living Spirit behind it through whom it was written (2 Pet 1:21 1 Tim 4:1). The Word is Alive and active (Heb 4:12) it speaks, it moves, it is the very thing that sustains us right now (Heb 1:3)! However God uses the written word (the Bible) as a medium to reveal Himself. We can see this in examples in the Bible, the most well known being the Pharisees who memorized the written word but crucified the Living Word Himself (Christ). Another example would be with the secular study of Scriptures! How can we have scholars reading the Bible, spending hours pouring over the Scriptures and then coming to the conclusion that God is a homicidal maniac and then teaching some very skewed heretical version of the Bible and God? It is because they did not have the Spirit (the Person), who wrote the Words, teach them! It is the Spirit that guides us into all truth (John 16:13) and we are all taught by God Himself! (John 6:45)
I would say that there are people in countries where it is illegal to have a copy of the Bible that know God better than we do here in the west. They may have only read a few excerpts here and there that have been scratched down of the actual Scriptures and they may not be as theologically knowledgeable but they have such a heart-reality of God in their lives and such child-like faith not based on what they know but just on Him, that God hears and moves mightily in those places! There is a difference between knowing a person and knowing about a person. If I came up to you and said Hey I know Obama and then you said awesome take me to meet him and I went to the front gate of the White House saying Im here to see Obama, I know him Obama comes out and says I dont know this guys hes a maniac and I said What do you mean, Mr. Obama, I know that you were born in 1961 and that youre the 44th president! Would they let me in? No, because I dont really know him I just know a lot about him. This is the same with God! It would be scary if someone spends their whole life studying and debating doctrine and at judgement day Christ says, I never knew you and the guy starts to splurge out all his theology that he learned through his whole life
But to no avail.
I think my main point is that at the end of the day we are not following doctrine but a LIVING RESURRECTED PERSON who leads us by His Holy Spirit! When I said not to get caught up in doctrine I am saying that we can focus so much on it and miss the Person who wrote them which is what eternal life is: KNOWING GOD AS A PERSON (John 17:3)! However, as I said before, dont misinterpret what I am saying, because these things (doctrine) are important! They serve as guidelines to knowing God.
Truth is a Person not a set of doctrines (John 14:6). When we see Truth as doctrine, as either one thing or the other, black or white, Calvinism or Armenianism, it will never fit together completely and end up causing division. But if we see Truth and pursue Truth not as doctrine but a Person, then we will start to understand these deep mysteries of God a little more and be united in true fellowship instead of divided over doctrine!
This is why having sound teaching in a service does not necessarily equate to church fellowship. The truth of God can very much be preached while the congregation is as dead as zombies. Instead, I would say sound teaching with the Spirit of God working in the hearts of people into conviction, worship, corporate prayer, repentance and reconciliation = fellowship!
When youre evangelizing to someone youre NOT indoctrinating them to believe a set of statements but you are trying to get to them to know a Person! It is impossible introduce someone to a person you dont actually know, they will be able to tell right off the bat if you know them by the way you talk about them! In fact, if I knew someone as a close friend and you knew about them and we start talking one day about this person I would quickly be able to tell if you actually know this person or not!
Bringing this all together: yes, we can identify false teachers by doctrine and Scripture but more importantly, if we know Him, we will be able to tell if another knows Him or not. This can be found in John 10:
The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a strangers voice. Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them
(14) I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know mejust as the Father knows me and I know the Fatherand I lay down my life for the sheep.
The sheep (thats us) KNOW his voice and does NOT recognize a strangers voice! This is very comforting!
1 John 4:1 says to test the spirits to see if they are from God because many false prophets have gone into the world! Whats interesting here is that it says to test the spirits and not the doctrine! I believe this is because behind every false teaching there is a false spirit! Though we can point out how false teachers are false through scripture (and this is beneficially) we cannot win by arguing with doctrine alone! This is because battle not of flesh and blood but against real principalities of darkness (Eph 6:12)
| 2011/11/15 18:08||Profile|