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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Believing by faith alone will not get you saved


We are 100% saved by faith alone. There is NOTHING we can do to earn God's love or to get us 'more' saved than we already are. The amount of time we spend in church will do nothing for our salvation, the amount of tithes we pay, the amount of good works we do, nothing. We are saved by faith alone.

Now, the rewards we will or will not receive are based on something entirely different!! And that is for another 'thread' I guess!

God bless you Krispy and I wouldn't worry about what a noob says!!!

Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/11/12 20:46Profile









 Re: Believing by faith alone will not get you saved

Hello Krispy, I will answer your question.

James 2:18 Show me your faith without your works, And I will show you my faith By my works.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you. That unless your righteousness Exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, You will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Righteousness sounds pretty important doesn’t it?

If only the 'righteous' will be saved, then it is essential that we understand what constitutes true righteousness,

Matt. 19:17, "...If you will enter into life, keep the commandments." All 613 Commands.

(Psalm 119:172)"My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all your commandments are righteousness."

Yahshua (Jesus), Taught Righteousness by Works: In the Parable of the Tares, Yahshua included those who practice righteousness and those who practice lawlessness:

According to this parable, at the end of the age people will be divided into two groups: those who practice lawlessness, sin, unrighteousness and those who keep the law.

But, some may ask; How can we know for sure that Yahshua did not 'do away with the law'? He did not do away with the law because He specifically said that He did not:

(Matt.5:17-19)"'Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one Jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them (the Law) he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'"

Where does this put you? your disbelieve will not change these facts.

 2011/11/12 22:10









 Re:

Hey Monnkz,

Good luck with that...let us know how you do.

 2011/11/12 22:28
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: Monnkz

Monnkz,

ANSWER THESE FIVE POINTS.


1. The New Testament teaches that Old Covenant rituals are not binding on New Covenant Christians.

We Christians affirm that Old Covenant rituals and ceremonies have nothing to do with New Covenant salvation. Christians, whether Jew or Gentile, now have peace with God simply through our faith in Jesus Christ, Who,

Eph 2:14 ...hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man...

The apostle teaches that the Old Covenant-required rituals and ceremonies that had so long separated Jew from Gentile have now been abolished by God. You say that they are binding on Christians and you imply that we Christians are lost because we take the apostle's teachings at face-value. By doing so, you have re-built a wall of separation between us, and this is an ABOMINATION to God.

We Christians firmly believe the inspired apostles when they teach that in no sense whatsoever are Old Covenant rituals necessary to observe in order to be saved. Rather, both Jews and Gentiles alike are saved by faith in Christ alone.


2. The N.T. teaches that Christ Himself is the fulfillment of the ritual and ceremonial observances of the Old Covenant.

Please consider:

Col 2:10 And ye are COMPLETE in HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 LET NO MAN therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of AN HOLYDAY, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY is of Christ.

The reasoning of the apostle in this place is that:

These ritual and ceremonial observances were merely symbolic and transitory, like a shadow being cast on a wall by a man's approaching body.

They merely pointed to various aspects of Christ's salvation ministry, (which at the time was yet to come), but which He has now completely won for us.

Since Christ has indeed already come and has succeeded spectacularly in His mission to "purchase us with His own blood", we naturally set aside the UNNECESSARY rituals that merely pointed to that, and fully embrace Him instead, just as we would naturally set aside our attention from a man's shadow, once the man himself comes into our view...

By faith alone we NOW have Christ and by faith alone we are NOW made COMPLETE in Him. Rituals and ceremonies that once pointed to him have been made obsolete. The writer of Hebrews says plainly that these ritual observances had come to end. They,

Heb 9:10 ...stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Thank God! We have now entered into a new and glorious time where God has not only freed us from these carnal ordinances but has also,

Col 1:13 ...delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

And this,

Rom 14:17 ... kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

The New Testament writings clearly affirm that there is a change in God's requirements concerning rituals and ceremonial observances, but if you will not hear the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, perhaps you will you hear the prophets of the LORD instead:


3. The O.T. teaches that God Himself would be the One to alter His Own Word.

When Israel ignored the necessity of true heart-holiness, God Himself became sick of their ceremonies and their keeping of sabbaths:

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul HATETH: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

God found this fault to be so consistent with them as to be detestable. He later spoke through the prophet Jeremiah:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their HEARTS; and will be their God, and THEY shall be my people.

It may be asserted that God's "ethical" requirements can never be changed; that Scripture in the New Testament can never contradict Scripture in the Old Testament. Verses may be quoted to prove that men cannot change God's requirements, and this is good and right and true, but who are you to say that HE Himself CANNOT change His Own requirements? Didn't you notice that "YAH" says in the text: "I" will make a CHANGE regarding my covenant with the House of Israel?


4. Consider further:

The Old Covenant (along with it's ritual and ceremonial observances), has been REPLACED by the New Covenant, and it wasn't any mere man that did this, but GOD Himself :

Heb 10:9 ...HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST [COVENANT], that he may establish the second.

How can you have set yourself up to be a "teacher in Israel" when you don't even know "YAH's" mind? How can you be a true "watchman over Israel" when you are so totally ignorant of His purposes?

God Himself has changed the nature of our covenant with Him. He has changed the requirements and He has revealed a truly "new and living way." And truly, "where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY!" Through Christ alone we have,

Heb 10:19 ... boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Heb 10:20 By a NEW and LIVING WAY, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a TRUE HEART in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The New Covenant is the "NEW WAY", but our knowledge of it is not new. It had already been heralded by the prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and its fulfillment has been fully explained to us by the apostles. Truly we are,

Eph 2:20 ... built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets!

Consequently, we Christians know with the fullest assurance that:


5. The Bible says that the observing or not observing of individual holy days is not a “salvation issue”:

We Christians can take the simple teachings of the apostles at face-value:

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth ONE DAY above another: another esteemeth EVERY DAY alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

Col 2:16 LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU.

Even so, LORD JESUS. Amen.


May God bless the TRUE "Israel of God."
Doug.

 2011/11/12 22:42Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Actually you are not correct on this one Monnkz, because righteousness comes by faith only. The obedience to His commands are only the result of that, not the cause. It is of course right to say, where the works of obedience are missing, there is no true faith. Saving faith is never alone, as James correctly says.

In the same way we establish the law - by faith. This of course does not negate God's law, we can only know by faith that His laws are written on our heart. When this faith is active we of course have his commands in our minds, not come up with sayings that grace replaced them, that would be wrong understanding. Or indeed we are not born again yet, then truly nothing is written on our heart, while we think we know what grace and love means, but actually don't.

But this took me a long time to understand: Romans 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

How do we establish the law? Wesley got that one sorted out: Law Established through Faith http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=6109

It's an important read because in today's time many people are lawless while they call themselves believers. This is deception, and the thoughest one I've ever seen.

The problem with people that think to know what grace is and call everyone legalistic and judasizer that does not share their surface understanding of the matter is they do not understand the endtimes deception that is not legalism, but lawlessness. I had to read that book by David Servant 3 times before it clicked in my mind what he meant with this quote:

"The reformers were cautious to proclaim, “It is faith, alone, which saves; but the faith that saves is not alone.Today, hundreds of years later, what the reformers feared has come upon us. Unlike the legalists of Martin Luther’s day, today’s church-goers don’t need to be told that their dead works can’t save them. Rather, they need to be told that that their dead faith can’t save them. "

 2011/11/12 22:50Profile









 Re:

Mahoney,

I am doing super. I keep the commandments as instructed by Yahweh, I keep the Sabbath on the seventh day just as our Savior instructed.

I observe all the Holy Feast days as Instructed by our Father in Heaven. Just as our Savior Yahshua Messiah did.

I am not delusional into thinking that I can live an unrighteous life and somehow make it into a righteous kingdom through faith. That doesn't make any sense. I am not working for my salvation, I am merely being obedient to the will of the Father and the Son.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:16

He who says, I know him, but does not keep His laws, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Praise Yahweh

 2011/11/12 23:35
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, what other filthy rags can you boast in.if you boast boast only in Jesus for there is none good ,no not one,save He who died for us.surely not you or i.jimp

 2011/11/13 0:25Profile









 Re:

Ahhh... Monnkz finally arrived! (Seriously I'm glad you joined us)

Do you keep the Levitical Law?

Krispy

 2011/11/13 5:23









 this is sinful.

Steve "Krispy", this is not right.

Quote:
Ahhh... Monnkz finally arrived! (Seriously I'm glad you joined us)

Do you keep the Levitical Law?

Krispy



you are baiting the man, you are looking for a argument. that is sinful, you know it, i know it, God knows it. the moderators closed the prior thread, the one about Christmas, because it was devolving into a bitter cyber shoving match, and yet, you layed out a thread, full well knowing, and looking for round 2, with this man. What that demonstrates to me, is a lack of submission to leadership on this forum.

i'm so disapointed in you, after everything that has gone on, would to God, He had matured you, that he had changed your very nature, i urge you, (as i always urge myself) to seek God the Holy Ghost's Counsel, before you continue further.

you can have man urging you on, encouraging you, on this path, but thats man pleasing, is it God pleasing?

in what way are you furthering the Kingdom of God and the Ministry of Christ Crucified?.......and "amens" and religious cyber high fives on an internet forum, that is canted towards revival, thats just man pleasing, as God the Holy Ghost leads me to write....and i have prayed whether to even address you on this, because for one, the verbiage you have used, has offended me greatly, because really, you have no idea how the word "judaizer" would cause spiritual upset in a Jew, let alone ,a Jew like me who follows Messiah. Your hasty words about the Hassidim, their way of dress, and then even saying, "i dont know much about them"...well then, in the Wisdom God gives, if you dont KNOW, cant you still your keyboard and be silent?

its evident this man is of the "Hebrew Roots" movement or some form of it, i asked him if he was, i asked him if he was a Jew, he wouldnt answer, so its evident HE has some form of agenda, which he desires to ply here, and you as well, HAVE agenda, which is to engage him in a cyber tussle, a very public and nasty cyber tussle, and that leads me to ask you, after EVERYTHING thats gone on, i thought Jesus matured you, that you'd be eating 'solid food', that God had humbled you, brought you low, and in your lowly estate, you'd grow in Jesus....thats what i THOUGHT would have happened, and much to my disappointment, i'm not so sure.

Now, i asked Greg, about 4 months ago, to make "natan4Jesus"...anonymous, to close my 'account, as the forum was stumbling me, because i had gotten to the point, where i was so grieved, everytime i came to the 'fig tree' and found no fruit, just a lot of religious fussing and palaber, that i had to go. i had downloaded all the sermons that spoke to my heart, and that was it.

i only came back on, as "HezWelling", (a secular writing name i use professionally is "Hezekiah Wellington") soley because i read a man, undoubtably demonically possessed, writing the most awful insults to my dear brother Mike Compton, and as the Lord lead, i was NOT going to let such go unanswered...but i'll tell you what, i PRAYED...hard, before i even wrote that post....now search your heart, if all you are doing is writing posts, just to fill the time, or to seek some form or fellowship, or to work out frustrations, whatever impells you to go at it, then i urge you, in the Name of Jesus, if the reason you post, is not to glorify God, encourage the saints...then ask to have "Krispy Kritter" made anonymous, and seek the LORD in a season of pray, Scripture reading and fearless self examination, because what you are doing here is sinful. i write that meekly in both brotherly and Jesus' love, neil

 2011/11/13 9:04









 Re: this is sinful.

Quote:
you are baiting the man, you are looking for a argument. that is sinful, you know it, i know it, God knows it. the moderators closed the prior thread, the one about Christmas, because it was devolving into a bitter cyber shoving match, and yet, you layed out a thread, full well knowing, and looking for round 2, with this man. What that demonstrates to me, is a lack of submission to leadership on this forum.



Absolutely untrue, brother. I am not baiting him. This subject has come up in several topics lately. The last thread was shut down clearly because of the Christmas argument, and if you read Paul's post about why he shut it down you would clearly see this.

I'm not looking for round 2 with him... he brings false doctrine to this forum and it is worth the effort to discuss it.

I dont know whats going on with you Neil, and I dont get offended by much, but your accusations and smearing of my intentions quite frankly is offensive.... not to mention hurtful.

But I forgive you.

If you are done, we will proceed with this worthy discussion. This IS a worthy topic of discussion here. It HAS been looked at by the moderators because I accidentally posted a duplicate post on this thread yesterday and it was removed... and only moderators can do that.

So far everything on this thread has been polite and there is no need to shut it down.

If you do not wish to be a part of the discussion then find another thread to read and stay out of this one. No one forced you to be a part of it.

I missed you while you were gone (ask Ginny)... but a little surprised by your hostility toward me now.

Krispy

 2011/11/13 9:19





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