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 CHRISTMAS -Pagan Holiday #1

The Apostles and early believers never taught the pagan
custom of Christmas. This deception was brought into
the congregations after the death of the Apostles.
This celebration was not a new doctrine by any means.
The pagans had been practicing these celebrations
hundreds of years before Yahshua (our Savior the Messiah) was born!
These celebrations were condemned by the early
prophets. Jeremiah had this to say about the pagan
celebration which early Christians renamed Christmas:

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. KJV

The people of this world have disobeyed Yahweh not only
by learning heathen ways, but also by practicing these
heathen ways yearly.

Jeremiah 10:3-4 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it moves not. King James 2000

This vain custom that Yahweh commands us not to learn
is practiced by all of Christendom every year. They cut
their evergreen trees, and they deck their trees just as they did in the time of Yeremyah. This world thinks nothing
of practicing this vain custom, although it is a custom
of worship to pagan gods! The practice of this vain custom
also breaks the First Commandment: ‘‘I am Yahweh, you
shall have no hinder Gods.’’

The breaking of Yahweh’s Law is sin (I Yahchanan 3:4).
The wages you earn for practicing sin is death (Romans 6:23)!

This world believes the fact that Yahweh inspired these
Scriptures to be written. His words are there for all to read, but they refuse to believe what Yahweh says. Yahweh says throughout the Scriptures that this vain way leads to death, and if you practice these vain customs which Satan instituted, you are a servant of Satan and not of Yahweh.

 2011/11/9 22:18
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re: CHRISTMAS -Pagan Holiday #1

hi, if God has lead you to not celebrate christmas then do not celebrate it.if God has led you to call him yahweh then go ahead. if God has lead some to call him abba as most orthodox jews do, so be it.... abraham did not build an ark because God did not tell him to do so.if God has told you to live in the old covenant mixing grace with law then i will pray for your soul.gal 5 and 6 shows me that the law is the leaven that leavens the whole lump and removes all the power of grace over an individual.that is why what soever is not of faith is sin.we are saved by the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross.that is a period.jimp




















 2011/11/10 1:32Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 293


 Re: CHRISTMAS -Pagan Holiday #1

Jesus was not born on the 25th of December. Celebrating His birthday is as unscriptural as, for instance, Infant Baptism, to name one of the many manmade religious customs.

The date of December 25 to celebrate Christ’s birth was chosen to conform to the old, pagan Roman holidays called "Saturnalia" and "Brumalia." I think everyone knows this by now.

Debating this with anyone but a sincere, Reborn, Truth-loving follower of Jesus (that is bound up in this deception), is pointless.

Mark 7:13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."

Math 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching [as] doctrines the commandments of men.'


_________________
J Kruger

 2011/11/10 2:48Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

you attack many jock ,assuming that people who celabrate christ birth day ,are not reborn ,truth followeres ,

your words are full of pride

 2011/11/10 4:23Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

I find no evidence in scripture that God has forbidden His followers from having a day that they recall the incredible event of Jesus incarnation. It seems more in line with His past revelations that we WOULD have such a season. A time of reflection that forces us to stop and recount the majesty and mystery of God humbling Himself to the point of taking on flesh and living among his creation.

Certainly most here realize that Jesus was not born on December 25. It is indeed an arbitrary date. However, it does give us a time to bring clarity to ourselves and the world about that tremendous event at Bethlehem.

A Christmas day, or season, also gives light to the idea that we all come to that babe in Bethlehem with blood on our hands. That innocent baby we picture in the feed trough is here ultimately for one reason... to be butchered because of, and for, our sins.

I fail to see any scripture that would forbid me from taking a time to put special emphasis and focus on this central event of the Christian faith.

Christmas is a good thing... if we use it wisely and well.

Blessings

 2011/11/10 6:38Profile









 Re:

Told ya... here we go again... just like clock-work!

**rolling of the eyes**

Krispy

 2011/11/10 8:20
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 293


 Re:

brothagary - I think you misunderstood me .... I hope.

Quote- I find no evidence in scripture that God has forbidden His followers from having a day that they recall the incredible event of Jesus incarnation.

When YOU allocate a specific day of the year to recall/reflect on/put special emphasis on, the incarnation, you are acting on your own initiative, and going beyond the Sacraments mandated by Scripture i.e. Baptism, Communion and Marriage.

Also, the way I see it, the Incarnation took place when Mary conceived in her womb, and not when Jesus was born.

Please don't limit any Eternal Mystery to a specific day or season!

Blessings

Joch


_________________
J Kruger

 2011/11/10 8:36Profile









 Re:

Joch... looking at your original post and the indents etc it is obvious this is cut and pasted. Where did this come from?

Can you state your position in your own words?

Krispy

 2011/11/10 8:54









 Re: CHRISTMAS -Pagan Holiday #1

KrispyKrittr....you make this sound like it's something new, it's not. there's overwhelming evidence on where Christmas came from, just look it up.
For scriptural evidence, we can turn to Jeremiah 10:2 - why wouldn't we believe all that the prophets have spoken? Jeremiah warned us of these practices way before the Savior was born.

jimp....Yahweh did not lead just me to call him by his Holy and righteous name, he instructed humanity to reverence his NAME not his many titles that men decided to use. Y H W H (meaning self existence, one who creates something out of nothing) There is only ONE covenant not two as the world makes you believe. The same covenant he made with Adam & Eve is the same one he gave to us. Don't be deceived. Rise up, be separate. "Touch not the unclean things" 2 Corinthians 6:17

brothagary... there is nowhere in the scriptures that tell us to celebrate the Saviors birthday. If it was that important, don't you think the Savior would have commanded the disciples to celebrate this annually? that would have been a heinous crime because every single on of the apostles understood the Law and went up 3 times a year to celebrate the original HOLY days instituted by Yahweh not man.

No Way! why should we seek Yahweh's righteousness? why should we celebrate the Feast Of Tabernacles as Yahweh has instructed us to do for all generations? Because sin is desirable that's why. Christmas is very desirable ain't it? We would rather partake in godworship won't we? because that's what christmas, holloween, thanksgiving, valentines day and easter is. godworship! the worship of demons. These are useless customs of men said Jeremiah.

Romans 6:16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 2011/11/10 9:34
dietolive
Member



Joined: 2007/6/29
Posts: 342


 Re: CHRISTMAS -Pagan Holiday #1

Monnkz -

Many of us know the Word and follow the apostles' doctrine. We will not be deceived, nor shaken in mind by your deceptions.


1. The Bible says that the observing or not observing of holy days is not a “salvation issue”:

Let us consider what the inspired apostle wrote...,

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it." Romans 14:4-6

Why do you condemn others who esteem one day higher than you do? We are taught by the inspired apostle that the keeping or not keeping of specific days IS DEFINITELY NOT a "salvation issue". Even the devils knew and recognized the apostle’s authority. By what authority do you then contradict the apostle?:

"Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but WHO ARE YOU?" Acts 19:15

Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ and we cannot deny his teachings on this or any other subject. This is because we, as living stones,

Ephesians 2:20 … are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The doctrine of Christ’s apostles therefore is foundational to our faith as believers in Jesus.


Let us consider therefore the following definitive teaching then:

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For IN HIM dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power…

LET NO MAN therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:6-17

To summarize:

We have received Christ by faith, nothing more, nothing less. We are not made “more complete” by the keeping of the O.T. ceremonial practices, nor are we made “less complete” by forgoing the same. Rather, we are ALREADY COMPLETE in Christ by faith. Therefore, the eating or not eating of “ceremonially unclean meats”, or the observing or not observing of “ceremonially holy days” does not affect our being complete or our complete acceptance in Him.

We see then that an exacting observance of “holy days” is not required by God. This is absolutely settled by the Holy Ghost, who inspired the apostle. Since it is the Holy Ghost Who has made the final determination on this matter, we must submit to His will and stop judging ("condemning") others over which days they observe.


2. Attempting to discredit something by supposedly showing a “pagan origin” is biblically and historically inaccurate:

Consider: you may or may not be aware that there are literally dozens of “false-christ” stories that pre-date our Lord’s coming to earth, and their stories share many similarities to that of our Lord’s. Many of these Greco-Roman-eastern false-christs were said to have been sired by God and born of virgin women around the time of the winter solstice.

Some were said to have lived moral lives, died as martyrs, and some were even said to have been raised again from the dead. Using the same “pagan origin” reasoning that you have espoused, Christ’s enemies to this day continue to argue that the story of His coming in the Gospels originates from these pagan myths, because the myths supposedly came first; i.e. the “virgin birth” has a pagan origin; His martyr’s death has a pagan origin; His resurrection has a pagan origin. They say the Gospels are interpolated and false and that Jesus is therefore “just another myth”; i.e. He is just another false-christ.

However, just because pagans first believed similar (though twisted) stories about their false-christs doesn’t change the truth about Jesus Christ! This misleading, (though easily believed) “pagan-origin” type of argument has been around a long time, but was ably answered by one of our “Roman” brothers (Justin Martyr) almost 19 centuries ago. His reasoned that:

Satan tried to “poison the well”; he early anticipated as much as possible of what he was able to understand of the prophesies of Christ, and then unleashed as many twisted, distorted versions of it upon mankind as he could, in order to preempt, deceive, distract, confuse, and lead astray as many people as possible from seeing the true Christ when finally He did come.

He wrote:
“But those who hand down the myths which the poets have made,… we proceed to demonstrate that [these false-christ stories] have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which were said with regard to Christ were mere marvellous tales, like the things which were said by the poets. And these things were said both among the Greeks and among all nations where they [the demons] heard the prophets foretelling that Christ would specially be believed in; but that in hearing what was said by the prophets they did not accurately understand it, but imitated what was said of our Christ…”

Furthermore, you imply that pagans first used December 25th as their holy day. You say that pagans worshiped Baal on this day, during this very darkest time in the year, (December 25th occurs very close to the winter-solstice.) So, the implication of such an argument is that Christians can have nothing to do with this day of the year.

But I ask, what is the actual true origin of December 25th? How was this day used before the pagan’s tried to take it over? Was it not a part of the year, and of the seasons, and of the times that God had made “good” in the very beginning? Yes it was. Were not the beautiful evergreens and holly trees likewise a part of God’s good creation then too? Yes they were. But you may say “these things that God first made good were later taken by pagans and made evil.” Well, yes, that would be true, if one first denies the Lordship of God over all His creation. But denying His Lordship is unbiblical, and mere men cannot actually make anything evil. The closest thing they can do is change some of God’s creation into a false representation of god, an idol.

But it is manifest that wreaths, and hollys, and trees are not idols, (just as cars, and houses, and furniture are not idols), unless they are worshiped as such. Likewise, consider my friend that God is the origin of all things; and of December 25th, as well as of every other day. How can you rather imagine that this day, or any of God’s days belong to mere pagans?

Because we understand that it is God who originates and owns every day, we Christians dutifully:

1. Cut out the pagans, (since they neither “originated” nor “own” any day of the year), and then we,

2. Give God thanks alone as LORD of every day that He has made.

Because today, as every day,

"...is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

Therefore, rather than ceding territory back to the devil, (as your view would require), we should reconsider our theories about the origin of Christmas. One could just as easily argue that some "Roman" Christians decided way-back-when to take this dark day back from Satan’s followers, and to celebrate the coming of the "Light of World into the darkness” on this day instead.

Their apparent error in reckoning the exact day is perhaps lamentable, but as we have seen above, God does not require the practice of an exact day in order to be saved. After all, the true, biblical position is that Jesus owns every day; Baal gets nothing, and Satan (the supposed "god of this world") has already been beaten, owns nothing, and has no power, but what our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ allows him to have. And this same Jesus is the KING of kings and the LORD of all the earth,...

"Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him!" 1 Peter 3:22


3. “Christmas Trees” are not condemned in Scripture:

Ashtaroth worship is.

"Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee."
Deuteronomy 16:21

Since the physical temple and altar of God is no more, it would be impossible for us to literally transgress this commandment against worshiping the goddess Ashtaroth today, except perhaps in the sense of setting up a tree independently and actually worshiping it as some kind of idol. I don’t know of any people who do that, but I would certainly condemn such practices if they were occurring.

Barring literal worship of the tree, today Christians could only transgress the principle implied by this commandment against worshiping trees; which according to the teaching in the New Testament could perhaps be defined as:

...that we should not put a tree, (nor anything else), ahead of our worship of God. Doing so would of course be spiritual idolatry.


4. Attempting to use a ‘false-dilemma’ argument is a logical fallacy:

You impose the false view that there are only two positions in this issue: celebrating Christmas or not celebrating Christmas. Actually, there is third way: celebrating Jesus Christ from the heart at Christmas time, while eschewing secular rubbish that has nothing to do with Him.


5. One who erects walls of division between believers over non-essentials is a wicked abomination to Jesus Christ:

“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:,… he that soweth discord among brethren.” Proverbs 6:16,18

Consider also the wrath of the Great Shepherd against all those who would hurt and maim His precious sheep. As proven above, He has spoken on this issue and it is now settled. If you persist therefore in continuing to attack the body of Christ; if you continue to damn His people over something He Himself has deemed to be a non-essential, you will be making yourself an abomination in His sight.

Consider His JUDGMENT to come. Jesus “is even at the door.” Labor yourself therefore to “be found by Him in peace.” Set aside your misplaced attacks against Christ’s own body and judge your heart in the inspired light of Christ’s requirements:

"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

WHERE THERE IS NEITHER GREEK NOR JEW, CIRCUMCISION NOR UNCIRCUMCISION, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but CHRIST IS ALL, and in all.” Colossians 3:8-14

Truly in Christ,
Doug

 2011/11/10 9:48Profile





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