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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?

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njhoover
Member



Joined: 2010/7/31
Posts: 61


 Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?

The closest scripture I can find to the saints being in heaven (not the same as living/residing in heaven mind you) is in Revelation.

I've always been taught that the elect "go to heaven" immediately after death. I can't find much scripture supporting that either.

Rev. 6:9-11

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, 'O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' Then they were each given a white robe and TOLD TO REST a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

Notice the slain saints are not walking around in heaven. They are told to REST a little longer.

Rev. 15:2

"And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire-and also THOSE WHO HAD CONQUERED the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps in their hands."

This is AFTER the tribulation (after the 2nd coming).

Rev. 7:9-10

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands"

Rev. 7:13-14 describes who they are (when they are)

"Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, 'Who are these, clothed in white robes and from where have they come? I said to him, 'Sir, you know.' And he said to me, 'THESE ARE THE ONES COMING OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. They have washed their clothes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Post-tribulation saints...

Rev. 7:15 describes their role

"Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence."

And where will the throne be?

Rev. 20:4-5

"Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. THEY CAME TO LIFE AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended."

So I guess I have a few questions:

1. Can anyone show where the Bible says we will live in heaven with God (or that anyone else who has lived in an earthly body is currently in heaven).

2. What is the point of the "resurrection of the righteous" if we can just instantly beam to heaven when we die? ("flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" 1 Cor 15:50)

3 What is the point of a judgement if the wicked are automatically thrown into punishment after death (as so many teach)?

Thanks!

 2011/11/7 19:53Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re: Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?

John 14:1-4 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Do you believe?

The answer to your question is no it cannot be proved, it takes faith, "by this you know that you have eternal life"

1 John 5:10-15 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Ask for assurance.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2011/11/7 20:42Profile
njhoover
Member



Joined: 2010/7/31
Posts: 61


 Re:

Christinyou - I do believe and I have assurance.

I did not mean to discuss salvation but rather WHERE salvation will be lived out and WHEN we will receive the inheritance.

And by proof, I mean evidence in the scripture (I'm not trying to be Thomas here).

 2011/11/7 21:21Profile









 Re: Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?


Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?

Yes!

God!

Acts 17:28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; For we are also His offspring.

God is heaven!

 2011/11/7 21:45









 Re:

"WHEN we will receive the inheritance."

As if we deserve such a thing. I personally don't deserve any inheritance nor do I expect it. Whether I get it or not makes no never mind, what is important is that we make it.

If God decides to give us something, hey, thats great, but as lowly creatures and creatures that can easily be wiped off the face of the earth by a thought, I would be most grateful if I just get through the door. As ole Peter said, "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where will the ungodly and sinner appear".

But God who is rich in mercy has made us kings and priests in His kingdom and caused us to sit with Him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, not by the will of man but by the will of God who saved us.

As for the inheritance, you should be receiving a portion of it now and a portion of it later. Part of that inheritance is the promise of the Holy Spirit and all what that entails.


 2011/11/7 21:56









 Re:


Heaven after death -

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee,
Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Php 1:23,24 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.


At His Return, we're given our resurrected bodies, as His. 1Corth15

We rule and reign with Him on earth for the 1000 yrs.

After which, all the dead are raised for judgment = "the second death".

After which - the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and there's a new heaven and new earth.

I assume, with our celestial bodies, that we could visit both without much problem or distance between the two as we know now - if there's any distance at all at that point.

 2011/11/7 22:15
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

njhoover,

You start to live out/walk out your salvation the moment you are born-again and the Spirit of God is given to you as an "earnest of your inheritance".

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 1:13-14

'Earnest' there is from the Greek word 'Arrabon' - this is Gk. word No 728 in Strong's Concordance system. The meaning is 'pledge' or 'part of the full purchase money – or property – given in advance as security that the full amount will indeed be paid.'

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2Co 1:21-22

 2011/11/7 23:44Profile









 Re: Can anyone prove heaven is our eternal home?


Hi again njhoover. I think the mix up is that you are seeing those in Rev 7 as 'after' the tribulation - but that is only during the 6th Seal - the 7th Seal brings the 7 trumpets and the tribulation ends with the 7th or Last Trumpet.

The "wrath of GOD" comes with the Vials - it says so enough times in chpt 15 & 16.

The Saints that are seen in Heaven in Chpt 7 are those who are 'killed' as their brethren were, [chpt 6] who you see being told to 'rest' until that number be fulfilled. [Rev 20:4-6]

For those who believe we're caught up to "meet Him in the AIR" at the "last [7th] trump", as Paul said - the last trump is not blown until 11:15.

What I find interesting is, during the 6th Vial, we read ...
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


 2011/11/8 1:05
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

From Hebrews 11
vs 1 “Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.”

vs 6 “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”


Such magnificent realities of God cannot be measured (or proven) by our natural and rational senses. There is no “objective” proof for one in a state of unbelief. We come to know as we accept this by faith – through a life of surrendered trust in our God.

By the time one can "prove" it (ie for a skeptic), it's too late - wouldn't you say?

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2011/11/8 7:20Profile









 Re:

I think this says it all:

2 Corithians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

Philippians 1:23 "I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better."

Clearly Paul believed and wrote (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, therefore these are God's words) that when he died he would leave this body and be with the Lord. Where is the Lord? In Heaven.

Krispy

 2011/11/8 9:00





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