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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 The High Benefit of Christian Submission

The High Cost of Christian Submission

Submission is the Christian duty: “Submit to one another in the fear of Christ”. Eph. 5:21 It is the sense of yielding to another. We submit to those who have authority over us in our domestic relationships. We submit to the governing powers. (see Rom 12). We submit to our enemies. We submit to our subordinates – even as Christ submitted to humanity - by yielding his life. The Christian submits in all human contexts. It is our way of life – our very nature.

There is a quality of submission that arises merely from the flesh; but there is a different quality of submission made possible through surrender to Christ. The believer can submit in ways that are most unreasonable – even impossible for the unregenerate. Fleshly submission goes the first mile; godly submission, the second mile.

Fleshly submission is tainted with self-righteousness; Godly submission with true brokenness and humility. In fleshly submission the “self’ is preserved; in godly submission the ‘self’ is crucified. Fleshly submission is driven by the fear of man and the doctrine of works; Christ-centered submission, by the fear of God and by his grace.

Fleshly submission is an effect of slavery; godly submission, of freedom. Yet, paradoxically Christian submission is a form of slavery. (see Rom. 6:16 -23)


In scripture the idea of submission is often applied towards God’s children who are dominated, oppressed, and exploited. That is where believers have most often found themselves. That’s a historical reality. These are the ones, I believe, who can help us understand our call to submission.

So far I have said little about the nature and outworking of submission. I would like to explore this theme further.

Further study, I think can help me rise above the tendency to perceive “submission” through the fleshly mindset or through cultural paradigms (which has merely created confusion and dividing walls).

I cherish your thoughts and contributions.

Diane


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Diane

 2011/11/7 7:46Profile









 Re: The High Cost of Christian Submission

Quote:
Fleshly submission is driven by the fear of man,



Yes.

Jesus said, My sheep know my voice and won't follow another.

The problem comes when we haven't had the time to get to Know His Voice. Normally that only comes through a great amount of time alone with Him or to those who's childlike faith has tuned in early in their walks or through those wilderness times.
We normally join a Church immediately after getting saved - which can be either good or bad, and rather than ask The LORD for counsel and learn Christ & His Word by study - we'll depend soley on others to answer all of our questions and there's not always the same quality of growth or quaranteed safety in that method, compared to asking Him with His Word wide open.

There is such a characteristic labeled "a dependent personality". These folks have little confidence to go it alone and need always get direction from someone else - other than alone in prayer with GOD.
Granted, for some it is more difficult to go from living autonomously while unsaved to suddenly getting saved and learning some "voice within" or to know His Word well enough to know how to find well sought-out counsel from it alone. There's a very vulnerable time directly after becoming a Christian and normally that is when new Christians are most vulnerable to come under the control of another, who is only too happy 'to control'.
Ideally, a leader will lead that person to an independent-dependence on Christ and His Word and away from depending solely on others to answer all of their questions. I was always taught that a good leader will always do that, besides just pray with the person and throw out questions and conversation that would train the person to seek out answers for themselves. Submission is normally only needed when the 'direction' we should go in is in question.

As far as 'leaders' go - few are called in comparison to how many call themselves by that title.

I've always actually enjoyed submission but after enough hard knocks, came to learn that GOD must truly show me clearly who I am to submit to. Gratefully, I found a very Godly Pastor and his wife is more of a sister to me/us than any "first lady" type. He set an example that few can follow. A good leader will lead by example and know how to walk with you through your hard times and his counsel will come across more as suggestions that we should go to GOD with.

Complicated topic. Other than wives submitting to their husbands and us to parents - except if it's a directive to sin against our conscience before GOD - my belief that all things and those who would 'lead' should be tested for a sufficient season, with prayer for protection for ourselves from our Good Shepherd.
Nothing wrong with taking time to "prove" an individual to be certain that what they are asking us to submit to is from the Spirit and not their flesh.

1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

GOD doesn't bless blind submission. We're individually responsible and accountable to know His voice & Word for ourselves.
Walking this walk 'blind' in any area because we haven't consulted our King and permitting time for our own growth to hear His answers is the major cause of falls - either morally or doctrinally.
We can depend on others so much that we totally stunt our own growth - GOD forbid it.

There's so much more to this but I'll leave it and thank you for your post.

 2011/11/7 8:32
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: The High Cost of Christian Submission

Diane, the way you contrast godly submission with fleshy submission is thoughtful, indeed...reminds me of the times when you tell a child he needs to apologize and does it because he fears you, not because he is sorry. Still, this exercise in submission is not bad - one hopes that in time the child will mature and learn the lesson the parent hoped to instill in that child.

Another aspect of submission used to be talked a lot about by our deacon - the one that exists in husband and wife relationships. The wife brings into a marriage her insights, perceptions of life, or whatever. It is her responsibility to share these insights with her husband for the betterment of life and to make life work. A wife who fails to share her insights with her husband is not a submissive wife. It has been my experience that rarely are my insights totally adequate to the issue at hand, but an important component that is essential in whatever decision is being made. I lend to it and in so doing it will trigger a thinking process in my husbands' mind that was absent before. This is the value of brainstorming where people of diverse experiences will share their insights in dealing with the issue at hand.

No, submission is not bad - it is the oil that lubricates the wheels of society, that keep it running smoothly. If it is inspired by the WORD you will have this added component in seeing the will of God at work.

I look forward to reading others' insights.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2011/11/7 9:23Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: The High Cost of Christian Submission

The quality of Christian submission is best demonstrated in Jesus Christ – most notably, his submission to evil man. He submitted to the point of death when he could have called ten thousand angels. He submitted, even when it meant he would be misunderstood, mocked as a failure, a loser. He submitted when he became the scapegoat for human sin. Note, he did not do this out of powerlessness or coercion - but out of free will and love:

When we were still God’s enemies (that is, in an undeserving state) Christ submitted his life in death. This is how God demonstrates his love to us. (See Romans 5) This is the ultimate submission. Really it is about Christ’s submission to none other than his heavenly Father.

We can easily understand submission to those who deserve our deference. But what about our “enemies” – those who seek our harm, or who seek to use us for their gain? When we touch on this aspect of submission, we touch on a very common Christian experience (historically and globally). Remember, when one becomes a believer, one lays aside their “swords”, ie, power over others. And in that way, they become vulnerable in a fallen and hostile world.

How does scripture address this?

Diane


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Diane

 2011/11/7 9:51Profile









 Re: The High Cost of Christian Submission

"Fleshly submission is tainted with self-righteousness; Godly submission with true brokenness and humility. In fleshly submission the “self’ is preserved; in godly submission the ‘self’ is crucified. Fleshly submission is driven by the fear of man and the doctrine of works, Christ-centered submission, by the fear of God and by his grace."

Yes indeed Diane, and may I add that Christ centered submission is driven, at the very heart, by love. We love Him because He loved us. We have a genuine relationship with Him because we are bond-servants. In the days of slavery, when a slave could have chosen freedom but he chose to stay with His master, what a beautiful thing and what a reflection upon the master. His Love for us changes everything. When all of the above flows from love then one is near to the heart of God. Of course this can only happen to those who have encountered the love of God and been completly broken and transformed by it.......brother Frank

 2011/11/7 10:22
El-Bethel
Member



Joined: 2010/2/7
Posts: 47


 Re: The High Cost of Christian Submission

I couldn't conceal my joy in reading this thread. Thank you bros and siss for this wonderful, blesssed thread.Roadsign, one of the great threads.

 2011/11/7 10:42Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

In scripture:

Joseph submitted to his ruler Pharaoh, and it cost him a jail term.

David submitted to King Saul by sparing his life. Yet it cost David.

Daniel submitted the pagan emperor by serving and honouring him - and it cost him the lion's den.

Hannah submitted her right to motherhood, by offering Samuel to an apostate highpriest. God used Samuel for his redemptive purposes.

Jeremiah called Israel to submit to the Babylonian empire – but they refused. The cost was judgment - not blessing. Even still, Jeremiah submitted to God’s call, and remained faithful to Israel.

Other examples?

PS In what way did they all give to "Caesar" what is "Caesar's" and to God what is God's?


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Diane

 2011/11/7 11:24Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: The “Second Mile” – a Risky Submission


The “Second Mile” – a Risky Submission

I offered a few examples of Bible people who submitted to superior powers. Many others were positioned as underdogs in the societal power grid. Yet through their submission they exercised great power – power of a nature that pagans could not comprehend. It is the power to offer the rulers and authorities what (in God’s economy) is owed to them: loyalty, respect, deference, and the fruit of one’s labors. It is independent of the merit of the recipient. According to Jesus this is what it means to “be perfect”: to dispense merciful love just like God does - towards the just and the unjust alike. (see Matt. 5:43-48)

The “first mile” is performed out of obligation, the “second mile” out of freedom – and more: In that second mile the love of Christ becomes evident. But so does something else:

The superior realizes that he cannot control or intimidate his subject, nor does he have full authority over this person. The “second mile” puts the superior in a position of lesser power. He realizes that the Christian is acting from a different authority, one that is uncontrollable and that cannot be subdued. The “second mile” is an affront to a ruler’s supreme authority - and so for the Christian it is a double-edged sword. It is why so many Christians are persecuted.

Nothing is more threatening to an empire than uncontrollable subjects. All who appear to threaten its power must be kept in check. This could become true for any human-run system of governance – be that an education system, a religious system, the health system, and so forth. From that perspective – true Christian submission in a fallen world is inevitably threatening and will incur resistance.

“The second mile” can either humble a superior or aggravate him (or her). He can’t stay neutral. The response is either submission to Christ or hostile resistance against Him – vented towards the Christian.

Christian submission is costly …. but it is fruitful.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2011/11/7 18:16Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Other examples?



Jonathan, Saul's son comes to mind. He submitted to his father and served in war to the bitter end.
He submitted himself to David, a commoner, even though he was in line to be king.

I suppose he was ultimately submitted to the truth. Ultimately he recognized that it was God's choice.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2011/11/7 18:52Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
Jonathan, Saul's son comes to mind. He submitted to his father and served in war to the bitter end.


This I do not understand. Did Jonathan’s loyalty to his father in battle reflect godly submission - or merely a compliance that God never intended?

Quote:
He submitted himself to David, a commoner, even though he was in line to be king.

I suppose he was ultimately submitted to the truth. Ultimately he recognized that it was God's choice.

This I can understand. Here Jonathan put himself in line with God’s design.


_________________
Diane

 2011/11/7 20:46Profile





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