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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Quiverfall

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EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hello,

This is a very interesting topic.
I have always pondered the question of having children and family size as I am in a courting relationship and the topic has come up on more than one occasion.I have come to believe that God does call people to marriage specifically. That is part of my own testimony. I did not want to be married for the longest time because I had a wrong idea of what it meant to be "devoted" to the Lord. However God really changed all that and has helped me grow through a godly relationship (you can read about it here http://evangelandevelyn.posterous.com/ )

The thing that I am really struggling with is precisely on the topic of having children and birth control. This has been quite helpful. Thank you all for your postings.

There are so many men and women of God who wee mightily used throughout history who were single, married with children or married without children.

God uses every single possible situation for His glory.

Watchman Nee got married but did not have any kids
William and Catherine Booth were married and had children
Marie Monsen stayed single her whole life and of course the Apostle Paul.

*I had always wondered in Priscilla and Aquilla had children and how they ministered as a couple?

This is another topic I have been pondering...
In what ways do couples minister together?

I know some who work together side my side others in which the male is the foremost minister but the wife supports in a crucial way and still others where the wife is the minister and the husband is not.



 2011/10/27 14:35Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1989
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

There are other forms of birth control aside from taking a pill. Abstinence at key times of the month is partially effective, as are other methods. The reason I say this is to ask a couple of questions. I ask them not to argue, but simply to put the questions out there and see if anyone has considered them.

If the command is to be fruitful and multiply and if a couple abstains for a week or two during a particular time of the month, have they sinned in not allowing God to make the decision about their child?

Does this mean that a couple is bound by scripture to come together during these key times?

Is it possible that God placed within each man and woman the ability to reproduce and decreed, "now go and be fruitful", leaving it up to the natural processes that He built into the man and woman to bring about offspring?

I am NOT implying by the last question that each person is not unique nor that God does not cause each man to be a unique spiritual being. I am asking if it is possible given the previous comment and questions that it is up to us to be fruitful and that we can simply listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit as to when we should start and stop bearing children?

I have never heard of the quiverfull movement. I have just had friends who felt they ought to have as many children as would naturally occur if they did nothing to inhibit the process.


_________________
Travis

 2011/10/27 15:05Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"There are other forms of birth control aside from taking a pill"

I will share my take on this issue as discretely as possible.

The pill functions as an abortifactant. It does not prevent conception (edited) but prevents the implantation of the fertilized ovum into the uterine wall, or at least it used to. There are other methods of contraception that work this way as well.

I am not convinced that using the pill or its cousins is not without risks, even though the birth control industry says it is safe. I do not believe it is healthy to fool around with nature like this - the women know what I am talking about.

I would recommend for any who are seriously interested in this topic to check out "Natural family planning". You can google this term and find the info you need on the web.

'Nuff said....

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/10/27 18:58Profile
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re:

When I was set free by Jesus Christ, I was set free from dogmas.

There are those who think their spirituality increases as their family increases and yet this is not how personal spirituality increases. If they think that, then the implication is that those who don't have x number of children or none at all are then, not blessed by the Lord. This is very Old Testament thinking. To the Christian, outward circmstances or "props" are no measure of spirituality.

Is God practical? Of course He is. Look at the world around you. Look at your own body. He gave you natural means to practice family planning.

There are many dogmas that have been created, from wearing certain clothing to having x number of children.

Be led by the Holy Spirit in conjuction with your spouse and stay free in Jesus.

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/10/28 0:39Profile









 Re:

OK... I wondered if I should enter this conversation or not since I am not a woman, but really we're all Christians and as long as we are focussed on scripture then gender does not matter.

I think scripture is quite clear on matters like this where there is no clear command one way or the other... the second half of Romans 14:5 "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Being deeply involved in the homeschool community we know families of every stripe. Families with 12 and even more children. Some families with 1 child.

The parents with 12 kids, fully convinced that that is what the Lord wants for them, need not judge the family with 1 child. And the family who can not comprehend having a dozen children and stopped at 1 need not judge the bigger family.

The number of children does not make a parent more spiritual or less spiritual.

Each couple need to seek the Lord in matters like this.

We have 4. We stopped on purpose. We are quite satisfied that we are exactly where God wants us to be. We have friends that just keep churning out babies... and I say God bless 'em!

**As a side note: several of the huge families we know are heavily dependent on welfare, food stamps and medicare (whatever the insurance is)... and I do very MUCH have an issue with that. Those things were intended to help people while they are going thru hard times, not to support families that keep having more and more children. If it's God's will for you to have 15 kids then you better also trust Him to provide for you! Your husband better work his tail off (at 3 jobs if necessary) providing for you and the kids. If he works like that perhaps your child bearing would slow down... lol... **

Krispy

 2011/10/28 8:02
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

"When I was set free by Jesus Christ, I was set free from dogmas.

There are those who think their spirituality increases as their family increases and yet this is not how personal spirituality increases. If they think that, then the implication is that those who don't have x number of children or none at all are then, not blessed by the Lord. This is very Old Testament thinking. To the Christian, outward circmstances or "props" are no measure of spirituality.

Is God practical? Of course He is. Look at the world around you. Look at your own body. He gave you natural means to practice family planning.

There are many dogmas that have been created, from wearing certain clothing to having x number of children. "

WOW- set free from dogmas. THat can be a blessing and a curse yet your words here strike at the heart of the issue, for me.
Natural family planning? I would agree, everything to not sleeping next to each other, as in the older days, which really doesn't happen anymore. Also, knowing that window of when a woman is able to get pregnant during that period of the month. My month knows this, hence we do not have kids. I actually learned about this through her. Never was taught this anywhere.

Last paragraph leads me to shout AMEN and that doesn't happen very often for me. It reminds of of independent baptist churches who tend to frown on ladies who wear pants and don't wear long hair as if they are less christians. I know of some churchs here like this.


This question then remains for me is this. with all of this thinking and what I call man made dogmas what is it to be christian in the end anyway? Now we see why the Pharisee became as they were and why many in the secular world see religion as messed up.



_________________
John

 2011/10/28 8:34Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452
Mississippi

 Re:

Most families today have some prodigals within their ranks. But I do know of a few that don't. These families I really admire and wonder what they did different from other parents. Perhaps the family I admire the most has six boys, no girls. All are faithful serving the LORD, active in their church and church conference. Four of them are married with very nice families. I do know the mother is a very spiritual lady as is her husband.

If you are going to have a very large family there is one point the husband has to consider: how would his wife cope should something happen to him? This is not a hypothetical question, I am serious. Husbands and wives do die in the prime of life, leaving the spouse to cope. And some do not cope well at all. Seems to me not very many consider this question seriously.

QUOTE:
"**As a side note: several of the huge families we know are heavily dependent on welfare, food stamps and medicare (whatever the insurance is)... and I do very MUCH have an issue with that. Those things were intended to help people while they are going thru hard times, not to support families that keep having more and more children. If it's God's will for you to have 15 kids then you better also trust Him to provide for you! Your husband better work his tail off (at 3 jobs if necessary) providing for you and the kids. If he works like that perhaps your child bearing would slow down... lol... **

AMEN! But, I also LOL!


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2011/10/28 8:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:
and why many in the secular world see religion as messed up.



Christians can certainly be blamed for some of that, but in the end the fact is that the unregenerate heart can not understand the things of God (thats what scripture says)... and thus can not understand Christians.

Krispy

 2011/10/28 8:42
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

"I think scripture is quite clear on matters like this where there is no clear command one way or the other... the second half of Romans 14:5 "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."


The parents with 12 kids, fully convinced that that is what the Lord wants for them, need not judge the family with 1 child. And the family who can not comprehend having a dozen children and stopped at 1 need not judge the bigger family.

The number of children does not make a parent more spiritual or less spiritual.

Each couple need to seek the Lord in matters like this.

**As a side note: several of the huge families we know are heavily dependent on welfare, food stamps and medicare (whatever the insurance is)... and I do very MUCH have an issue with that. Those things were intended to help people while they are going thru hard times, not to support families that keep having more and more children. If it's God's will for you to have 15 kids then you better also trust Him to provide for you! Your husband better work his tail off (at 3 jobs if necessary) providing for you and the kids. If he works like that perhaps your child bearing would slow down... lol... **

Krispy"


One thing I would have to ask is when a couple has , say 10 kids or more, and mom is still able to have kids are those couple waiting upon 'God' to tell them to stop? What is their sign? This is what puzzles me even after reading articles about those who have come out of this quiverfull thing.

Your last paragraph tackles the practicalness of this all. It is my thinking that if all of this ordained of God would the circumstances not cause the families to be self sufficient somehow? Instead, as you said KK they are reliant on food stamps and so forth which doesn't seem to be bring glory to God. Yet, I know some christians will say children are a blessing from God despite circumstances-yet is that really reality? Is my thinking twisted in this? Is it Godly minded to think like that?

One last comment/question on my post here. What percentage of christian couple have this belief? I have never heard of this "mentality" before and I think the average person, christian-nonchristian would be wowed at those who have lots of kids but then looked down upon if those same families had to reach out for food stamps and welfare because they cannot afford the household though God inspired them to have many kids. It doesn't seem practical that this is glorifying God. Help my unbelief in this area because I just shake my head on it.


_________________
John

 2011/10/28 8:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Most families today have some prodigals within their ranks. But I do know of a few that don't. These families I really admire and wonder what they did different from other parents. Perhaps the family I admire the most has six boys, no girls. All are faithful serving the LORD, active in their church and church conference. Four of them are married with very nice families. I do know the mother is a very spiritual lady as is her husband.



The grace of God... I often look at my kids and marvel at how they turned out the way they have. It certainly was not due to my horrible example of a Christian man, and my complete lack of parenting skills. I owe much to God being merciful and full of grace... and to my wonderful wife who manages to undo all the damage I do.

My parents used to tell me I was like a "bull in a China shop"... and right they were... and still are.

Krispy

 2011/10/28 8:45





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