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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Quiverfall

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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Quiverfall

Not long ago I came across a story of a woman who was living in a Quiverfall group. I never heard of this until this interview. It deals with families having as many kids as God allows them to have. There is a verse from the Psalms that deals with this. THe groups seem to use it as their cornerstone and it seems to be mostly in the midwest.

I follow the lady on twitter because this whole thing is just so intriguing to me. She recently posted a link on twitter that caught my eye because parts of it are things I have seen in Christendom and I have wondered how really accurate is it? Is it biblical? It is more cultural yet it is being taught as bibical.

Here is the link. Read at your convenience and tell me what your thoughts are.

http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/03/quiverfull-daughters-the-making-of-a-helpmeet/


_________________
John

 2011/10/27 8:55Profile
sarahsdream
Member



Joined: 2011/6/16
Posts: 183


 Re: Quiverfall

I think you mean Quiverfull.

I follow that site, too.

It talks a lot about spiritual abuse in Christianity.

Their aim is to preach the truth and let the light dispel the darkness while ministering wholeness to those who have been abused spiritually. I am impressed that they are not operating from a root of bitterness.

Very needed for our day as almost all Christians have been touched by spiritual abuse which is basically misrepresenting the truth in order to take advantage of someone in one way or another for your own personal gain. It deals mostly with women.

It is good to read this so you don't get the wrong idea about where they are coming from.

http://nolongerquivering.com/what-is-quiverfull/

In Christ,
Sarah

 2011/10/27 10:18Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Yes, I meant quiverfull. I Realized I spelled it wrong but I can't go back and edit it-woops.

Quiverfull seems to be something that advocates familes having lots of kids because this is what God has ordained. I think that is skewed.

One of the reasons this thing caught my interest is because of the class in 'women's studies' I am in. The catch is to sort through it all to find out what is wrong and what is right and why and why some women are being abused through it and what the church should learn as a result. Don't you think?


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John

 2011/10/27 10:34Profile
mama27
Member



Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1369


 Re:


"Quiverfull seems to be something that advocates familes having lots of kids because this is what God has ordained"

I am one that would be considered to have raised my family in the "Quiverfull movement", but the very term movement gets my dander up. ANY basis for the raising of my children came from a Biblical conviction. Any "movement" in history, or any denomination across church history no doubt started because of beliefs. Yes - many are filled with abuse and a twisting of God's truth. After all, doesn't satan come as an angel of light? I get very angry at this "anti-quiverfull" movement that has now arisen because they are missing all of the Biblical TRUTHS and convictions that have come out of a heartfelt desire of MANY FAMILIES to raise children "counter-culturally". Admittedly, some have gone too far. But you don't throw away the Bible because of it. I don't like to put myself out here like this on this forum because I do not have the emotional energy for the debate that most often comes. But this topic really rankles me, and I feel a need to correct misconceptions regarding it.

Regarding your quote - the idea is NOT "having large families". There is a subtle difference that many people who are on the outside and just observing often miss - the idea is that we give God control over every area of our lives. And that when God says "Be fruitful and multiply" (yes, Old Testament), we give Him control in that area as well. In my case, my husband and I said, "Lord we are willing to have as many children as You would have for us"....

 2011/10/27 10:51Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

mama27

your last sentence, 'Lord we are willing to have as many children as You would have for us....' How practical is that? Do you have kids until both of you agree that is enough? OR until you hear God say ENOUGH? Or until you encounter some female complications? When does it become enough?

Over here on the shelf it seems like this is taken out of context-the be fruitful and multiply context.



I understand how 'movement' rankles you- always a buzz word.


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John

 2011/10/27 11:03Profile
romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 322


 Re:

I registered for the site just to respond to this thread. I am a mother of 9 children. I never heard of the quiverfull "movement" until today. In fact, I have yet to meet NAYONE who agrees with me on this. Yet, God spoke into my Spirit (NOT my husband's although he supported me) many years ago many of the things that I read are advocated by the "movement."
Specifically, I had three children and began to take birth control to prevent more pregnancies. I heard the LORD say to me: "Are there any blessings from me that you would want to stop?" I answered of course not. Then I felt the LORD say to me: "Then why do you want to stop having children since they are a blessing from Me?" (Psalm 127 is just one example. This may be Old Testament, but I would think the spirit of the New Testament supports it.)

I became immediately convicted and stopped taking birth control. Thanks to God my husband supported my decision. Although I did take natural methods not to become pregnant, I understood that it was in the LORD's hands and in His sovereignty whether I would have any more children. In other words, I surrendered MY will to HIS will. Is that not what Christ calls us to in EVERY area of out lives?

Someone asked this is practical. Following Christ in any form is NOT practical. We trust God to provide for us in every other thing. Why should this be any different? God has always provided.

To note, I don't agree with the website's description of raising girls only to be a wife and serve a husband. This is highly unscriptural. Girls, just like boys, should be raise
d to serve and follow Christ ONLY. If this is done properly, they will become a good wife or husband IF that is what God calls them to.

I specifically de-emphasize to my children the cultural obsession with marriage and relationships. The only relationship that matters is the one with Christ. We teach them, as did the apostle Paul, that it is better to remain unmarried so as to be able to serve the LORD fully. That should be their focus UNLESS Christ calls them to marriage. The example of Brother Gordon is perfect here, if you have read his testimony.

I also do not advocate the type of corporal punishment described.

My daughters attend college and prepare themselves as the LORD will have. I could add, as to the matter of being "practical" that I have attended law school to and successfully graduated, by the grace of God, even with my 9 children because I felt that is what the LORD called me to do. He is not always "practical" as we see things. But he is always right.


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Natalie

 2011/10/27 11:39Profile
mama27
Member



Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1369


 Re:

Since when does God live in the realm of "practical"?? His ways are infinitely higher and deeper than ours. (Isa 55:8,9)

God could have chosen for us to have one child, and that would have been His perfect plan. In my case we prayed and waited through 8 years of marriage before our first child was born. And I had 3 miscarriages after our last child was born. We had given the matter to the Lord. CLEARLY our family size, AND EACH INDIVIDUAL LIFE (He brought us 7) was totally in His control. I could not control the starting of having children, and I could not keep them coming when my time was finished.

This is sort of like the headcovering issue that is being and has been discussed....God convicts and impresses each individual. Maybe to those on the outside looking in to this "movement", God hasn't given that conviction. Just PLEASE don't lump everyone together with all the stories you read of things "gone wrong"....

 2011/10/27 11:44Profile
keepstanding
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 38
UK

 Re: Quiverfall

This is a Quote by Doug Phillips
"The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing; but in our culture, we apply for a curse and reject blessings. Something is wrong with this picture."

 2011/10/27 12:52Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"God convicts and impresses each individual."


I have not followed the site posted but am familiar with the mindset of the quiverfull philosophy - it did not begin with a formal organization. The idea is that one should have as many children as physically possible, believing that conception is in God's control because after all, the OT patriarchs had large families.

This idea is seriously flawed. Is it God's will for singles to get pregnant? NO! Never has and never will be. I have had many single clients tell me it must God's will they are pregnant because they are! Hey! have you never heard of the biological reasons how a body conceives???!!! Ok, this is for singles. Now what about marrieds?

Any married couple will be faced with this issue, given all the methods available to limit your family size. Some opt for however many physically possible, others know their limitations and will work with it. In our case, before we married, we talked about family size and did pray about it. Even in it, God did rule and surprise us with two surprise conceptions and three planned pregnancies. Would you know that in time I did forget which ones were planned and which ones were a surprise? :-)

When #5 was in the oven I seriously considered whether this should be our last one since this was the number we had striven for. Then one day in church service as I was thumbing through Genesis my eyes fell on 3:16: "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." I saw something I never noticed before: the ability to conceive frequently was a result of the fall! (I will greatly multiply thy conception.) This is given in the context of where Adam was told there would be weeds to be dealt with. Soooo, this means that to see how many children you can have is not God's will, either, because it says that the ability to conceive more frequently is part of the curse placed on a woman.

I did more checking in the WORD to find the highest number of children birthed by any woman. I did find Hannah birthed 6 children. Leah seemed to have birthed 7 children that we have record of. I am not aware of any other woman birthing more then these after the flood.

Now, how many children should a couple have? These numbers teach us something, IMHO.

Husband and wife are called by God to enjoy each other and if a child results, one should resort to the mercy and grace of God to enable them to accept this child as a gift from Him. But to deliberately work to see how many you can have - this seems to me a point of pride and others looking on have observed this as well. But then that is between them and God - you do not want to go a child and tell them you think they were conceived as a result of pride!

My take on the quiverfull philosophy...

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2011/10/27 12:53Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

WOW, I am impressed and astounded at the last few comments after my previous one. I am taking it all in as I read them. I have my own ideas about the whole thing but listening to you ladies on this and even ginnyrose makes for what I consider some powerful reading!!!

Thank you for your input on this!!!!


_________________
John

 2011/10/27 14:03Profile





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