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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Are all Catholics going to hell?

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eagleswings
Member



Joined: 2003/12/30
Posts: 297
Connecticut, USA

 Re: Evangelicals & Catholics Together


“Many are acutely uncomfortable at this move ….”

To say the least :-)

See:
The Alignment of New Evangelicals with Apostasy
by Richard M. Bennett at: http://bereanbeacon.org/articles/alignment_evang_apostasy.htm

The Invincible Gospel, and the modern evangelical lie
by: Richard M. Bennett at: http://bereanbeacon.org/articles/invincible_gospel.htm

"THE GIFT OF SALVATION": (ECT 11) - The Lie Documented
by Richard Bennett at: http://bereanbeacon.org/articles/gift_of_salvation.htm











_________________
Roger P.

 2005/1/5 6:51Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
They always start from the assumption that reunification means ‘coming home to Rome’.

So long as they start there, they need not even ask.

Re: E&C Together; I'm certainly uncomfortable about the idea, as the Catholics being dealt with (presumably) [i]are[/i] versed in and generally in agreement with the teachings of their church.

The pressures toward unity are great, and Rome has undergone an almost unbelievable transformation from a mail-fisted tyrant for whom "tolerance" perhaps meant merely torturing heretics instead of burning them to the center of an immense ecumenical and inter-faith movement that could well result in something resembling the fulfilment of those prophecies interpreted as foretelling a worldwide false "official" religion.

I think there's always been a tendency in Evangelicalism, perhaps due to the very fact that they are (usually) self-conciously [i]not[/i] "fundamentalists", towards a phenomenon describable by the term "Evanjellyfish"; the point being that we (for I do, for now, call myself an Evangelical) can be swayed fairly easily by irenic, inviting, rational, and persistent dialogue. And some have been and are being swayed into things that have no business in the camp.

I believe I recognize the complexities of the issue, and how some on the "other side" are in Christ as well, but it is very difficult for me to see how we could regard the Church of Rome (as an institution) as anything other than one of our most bitter enemies.

 2005/1/5 7:17Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Keith, Ron,

Great discussion here.

Had listened to one of the messages Eagleswings listed here awhile back. It may seem unduly harsh if my recollection is correct, but largely think his fears are not unfounded, (Sorry, believe it was the Bennet message).

Think you are right Keith. What little I have read of all this seems to be loaded down with jargon and the path on it's way to compromise. Wouldn't expect any ground shaking renunciations from either side, likely it will be like most error, subtle, complex, much reading between the lines...muddy.

Quote:
the point being that we (for I do, for now, call myself an Evangelical) can be swayed fairly easily by irenic, inviting, rational, and persistent dialogue. And some have been and are being swayed into things that have no business in the camp.


Seems that the whole thing in reality is built upon the wrong premise, even though it goes unsaid, that under the guise of 'unity' the battle is more concerned with winning 'converts' to the other side of particular thinking. Not with lets scrap everything and start from scratch, 'what saith the Lord?'

Seems to me the only possible way this would ever work would be to come like children, with much humility and submission, more prayer than dialouge, much willingness to let go of presumptions, 'traditions' (they are not all wrong) would have to be set aside ...

Just mere speculation and opinion, but as I pondered this I am hopeful that just maybe all the rhetoric, all the denominational waring factions as a whole, not just these two parties is really working for the greater good in this sense;

That as I have often begun to see it here, the next generation is rightly feed up with denominational camps and constructs in that labels are for others to apply not necessarily to align yourself with...[i]"And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.[/i]" I know even that is in dispute itself and wouldn't want to take this too far, nor am I talking about starting the same opposite error of constructing something 'new'. But as it seems here, we are blessed to be able to take and glean much truth from all these predecessors and to my way of thinking it leads in the opposite direction, back, further and further to the core issues of the faith. Back to where it left off, after the last jot and title was written, up to that point...

Train of thought is derailing here. Think that the opposite danger is in the humanistic utopianism ideal of one 'religion' which seems to be gathering more and more steam and that this whole topic here and as bro. Keith alluded to:
Quote:
that could well result in something resembling the fulfilment of those prophecies interpreted as foretelling a worldwide false "official" religion.



That a time is coming when the divisions may become so narrowed that either you are a follower and willing to lay down your life servant of Jesus Christ or you have swallowed the worlds lie and their 'church'.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/1/5 10:23Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
That a time is coming when the divisions may become so narrowed that either you are a follower and willing to lay down your life servant of Jesus Christ or you have swallowed the worlds lie and their 'church'.

That would be consistent with the trend among secularists and liberals to be extremely intolerant of diversity. Many of their complaints boil down to a problem with the recognition of difference: treating men and women as being different is a serious no-no, regarding homosexuality as much different (specifically, inferior in various ways) from heterosexuality is slowly being made a jailable crime, and then there's the idea that God (should He actually exist) must be pleased with all of us exactly equally, and that obviously the relgions aren't really all that different, and anyone who thinks they are must be some kind of dangerous sectarian. In a way, it is becoming forbidden and illegal to say (or even think) that one person is different from another; even in the eyes of God. For the number of agnostics/atheists among them, they've got a remarkably good grasp on Unitarianism.

edit: and I agree that the Bennett articles are a bit over-harsh, though I don't disagree with his alarm at the situation. Still, treating J.I. Packer in that way is bordering on the reprehensible.

 2005/1/5 16:52Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

I was raised catholic and baptized as such and received communion. Through it all however I felt an emptiness, kinda like just going through the motions mindlessly from the sit-stand-kneel-sit of the mass to the prayers I memorized and said. I have some idea now why this was so. After prayers asking God questions and being shown revelations I see that the Catholic Church is based on a myriad of lies and blasphemies which have ensnared many people. It is somehow difficult to comprend or reconcile in the flesh but in the spirit it is crystal clear. The enemy's maain weapon is deception. Any good deception is one which is not very far from the truth or put such that it seems like another explanation of the truth. Hebrews says that the bible is sharper than any 2-edged sword which divides joints and marrow, sould from spirit and even judges the thoughts and desires of men. The bible separates into those who are truly after God by revealing truth to us, or those who are after futhering themselves (who are delivered into their own delusions)Clearly this has happened. For those who truly seek God they shall find Him and He shall givem them grace sufficient for them to endure what is to come. But WOE unto those who spread lies and teach blasphemies as truth for God's judgement shall surely fall on them.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/1/7 16:45Profile
Jbat001
Member



Joined: 2005/4/5
Posts: 3


 Re:

Just a curious enquiry from a Catholic reader browsing your site. How would you (for example) interpret this:

James 2:20-22

"20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

Faith is the light that burns inside us, but without that light showing to the world, it is effectively dead. This makes perfect sense from a Christian AND a secular humanistic viewpoint. I don't believe that works will buy me into heaven, but I know (from scripture) that without the fruits of my faith showing, it is as if it were not even there, as the passage illustrates.

 2005/4/5 16:06Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Faith is the light that burns inside us, but without that light showing to the world, it is effectively dead. This makes perfect sense from a Christian AND a secular humanistic viewpoint. I don't believe that works will buy me into heaven, but I know (from scripture) that without the fruits of my faith showing, it is as if it were not even there, as the passage illustrates.



I agree. I've put in bold what I think the key is. Faith always produces action. If there is no action there is no faith. If I were to say "do 10 push-ups and i will give you $1000" you (i would for sure.. and give it to missions ;-) )would do the push-ups, If you thought I was serious. Or in other words if you had FAITH in what I was saying was true you would have action. But If you didn't have faith in what i was saying you would just laugh and go on. Faith produces action. What we have to ask ourselves is do we take His Word serious? If we do there will be works. (that annalogy is a spin off of one i heard from Ray Comfort)

Hey, Welcome to Sermon Index. Listening to the reccomended sermons on the first page will deffinatly modivate you to take Gods Word serious.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/4/5 17:10Profile









 Re: Works vs Obedience

Dear Jbat001

There is a clear indication that James was not referring to Works as in his salvation, this is not the object of his argument, because God is not the author of confusion, He wouldn't inspire one writer to say, "For you are saved by grace thru faith and it is not of yourself lest any man should boast" and then say to another writer, "Faith without works is dead". This is a clear indication that God is not referring to works with salvation.

Many have stumbled over this passage in James, and yet it is very simple to understand, that James is saying that "Faith without obedience is dead". You can have all the faith you have it won't do you nothing unless you use it.

As Paul said that "Tho I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not charity I become like tinkling brass".

It is a foolish thing to just take one scripture and plant our feet there without incorperating the whole.

With this faith that we have, coupled with the holy Spirit which has given us power, love and a sound mind. We take this faith and combine it with love and you have obedience. So that if you see a man hungering, you will have compassion on him and feed him, otherwise if you had no compassion your faith will only feed yourself and you will horde everything that you have accumulated by the faith that you have, thus your faith is in vain.

This is why the Word of Faith or the prosperity gospel is so sickening, it's because it's selfish and has selfish motives.

I hope this helps you understand what Saint James was trying to convey.

Karl ;-)

 2005/4/5 22:48
jsb515
Member



Joined: 2005/2/28
Posts: 12


 Re:

Quote:

don't express to them doubts about their salvation (I would if I had good reason, but I'd do that for Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc. as well).



want to explain this a little more...

 2005/4/6 8:42Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Not bornagain ones


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2005/4/6 9:15Profile





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