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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1032


No brother Frank,
I do not agree that a faithful woman who did not wear a head-covering is better than an unfaithful woman who does unless such is convinced in her conscience that the Bible does not teach to cover her head? Nor do I believe that what is best is a faithful woman who wears a head-covering.

With God there is no category one, category two, and category three. There is no good, better, and best. Nor is there partiality with Him. He has no respect of persons.

A woman who sees the command in the Bible to wear a head covering and understands it correctly to mean she must wear a head covering and does not do it is an unfaithful woman. .
The only holiness that is pleasing to God is the holiness of Christ lived through the believer, and worked out in his practical life. A believer who obeys partially loves God partially. Partial love is no love at all.

Imagine Abraham receiving the command of circumcision but refusing to have it, or a believer refusing to be baptized having no physical impediment to do so.
How would God see that. Would he say it is better that he believes but it would be best if he obeys also, or would He say it is no faith at all which refuses to obey. There is only two ways with God, Good and evil, white and black.
I am not sure how you see these things but to me the frankness of God is scarier than Frankenstien.

Edit--Having said all this, I must also add that for a Christian there is no rules that fit all sizes. What can be good for one may be evil for another, and what one sees as legal and right may be sinful if done without love. A brother who eats meets offered to idols aught not do so in front of another weaker brother.
Paul lived as a Jew in front of Jews, and as a Gentile in front of Gentiles.
How was this then different from Peter whom he himself rebuked.
Answer: Peter did so on Gentile ground.
In the Jerusalem council all the Apostles agreed not to burden the Gentiles with circumcission. These people who came were visitors and not landlords. Peter was playing the hypocrite in front of people who had no rights in Gentile land. Yet we see Paul himself circumcise Timothy because he was half Jew to silence the Jews and not hurt their weak conscience.

Bottomline, if love is not the motive behind every work it is a work that will burn.


 2011/10/5 18:18Profile


HI untobabes, it seems we may be at an impasse, let us go with God, I will let my original post stand and for whoever, including myself, if the shoe fits.........

Brother Frank

 2011/10/5 19:13


1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It's not how we start the race but how we finish.

Thanks for the article, Brother Frank.
I love Tuesday nights as well and all involved.

Blessings as we pray one for another!
I need that fellowship and support as well.
Thanks to all!

 2011/10/5 20:50

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


Great article brother Frank. Thanks for posting it!

 2011/10/5 21:43Profile


1 Samuel 16:7
The Lord does not look at the things man looks ar. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.

We live by faith, not by sight.

 2011/10/5 23:10

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada


Hi Frank:

Haven’t been around for a while, but I very much enjoyed your message. I see what you are saying. I understand your burden.

As I thought on it, what came to me is that this is all about First Love.

What’s wrong with the emphasis on outward appearance — head coverings, women’s dress, and so on?

Well, nothing... I guess. But when this becomes the focus — when we’re focused on church order, on making sure we’re properly submitted... when we’re intent on making sure the women are dressed properly and are wearing head coverings... and so on... making sure we’re lined up with Scripture... is not this evidence that a certain Something is missing?

What had become the focus of the Ephesian church? The Lord Himself tells us. They had a lot going for them, actually. He said, “I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for My Name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.”

Wow. What’s wrong with that? Very commendable, all of it. They were very zealous to be lined up right, and could not bear evil. They had great discernment. They worked untiringly for the Lord. Endured much resistance without throwing in the towel. If we could find a church like that we would think... at last, I’ve found my church!

But in spite of all that, there was a Certain Something missing. And because it was missing, the Lord — can this really be so? — He was about to remove them as even constituting a church in His sight!

“Nevertheless I have against thee that thou hast left thy First Love.”

They had left their first love! And because of that, the Lord warned them that, unless they repented, “I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place.” He would no longer consider them a church in His sight. There would be NO LIGHT there!

In spite of all this church had, the Lord saw them in a fallen condition.

“Remember therefore from whence thou art FALLEN, and repent, and do THE FIRST WORKS...”

What, then, are the first works that the Ephesians had been doing when they still had their first love?

I think it has to be along the lines of what you said. They were doing things out of a First Love, a burning love for Jesus Himself, and not out of a motive to be lined up with Scripture. When that becomes the emphasis, and it happens all too often, sadly it is a sign of Something Missing.

First works are those works that we are doing because we are abiding in Him; our eyes are on Him with a great desire to please Him. First works are the things we do that flow spontaneously out from our love for Jesus.

And when we have left that first love, regardless how “right” we might be, we are in danger of having the candlestick removed from our midst.

...I lay this to heart myself, brother. Help us all, dear Lord, to return to our FIRST LOVE... that there might be LIGHT in our Lampstand.


Allan Halton

 2011/10/6 14:20Profile

Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057

 Re: Self righteousness and a focus on the outward appearance.

Thank you Frank for you post it was a real blessing to me. Lately I have struggled with some of the topics here on the forum its been a challenge prayerfully sifting through what the LORD would have for me so your post came as a much needed reminder that GOD does look at the heart of the person and not just what is on the outside.

Also was very blessed by your post AD. Thank you for sharing it here.

God bless

 2011/10/6 14:41Profile


Dear Maryjane, God knows your heart, and God alone knows your heart. We live to please our Lord, not men. I know this sister, from your many posts, that you are a child of the Living God who seeks to please her Lord. You are blood bought, redeemed, saved by the Lord Jesus. Your righteousness comes from Him. You were called to peace and freedom. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who walk according to the Spirit. From the many posts I read, there is a determined effort by some to some how nullify the salvation of others or seek to take control of the sanctification process. They would have us crawl into some dark hole and bemoan the fact that we are vile worms. When the actual presence of the Lord is taken out of the equation, what are men left with?

It is as brother AD wrote beautifully. The focus is transferred to the outward man. Frank

 2011/10/6 19:12

Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


Everything starts in the Spirit and then goes to the heart as center of belief, conduct and decision:

Acts 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

 2011/10/6 21:07Profile

Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1032


I would second brother Frank regarding you MaryJane.
I find your posts very edifying.
God Bless.


 2011/10/6 21:21Profile

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