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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : the beginning of the birthpangs..?

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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


If you want to win converts to Christianity, you need to make the parameters less difficult to comprehend and more believable. I fear your version of Christianity is irrationally exclusionary, because you have much higher requirements for faith and belief than did Jesus.

Hi Jake,

Men know there is a God and they press Him as far back into their minds as they possibly can. They have a basic sense of right and wrong, but they ignore their conscience and soon that sense is dulled. If a person is being honest when looking at the evidence they will know the truth. If someone is consistent in their analysis of the facts and will set the bar for belief the same as they do with other topics they will conclude rightly every time. But men are wicked and they change the bar up and down depending on what they want to believe. They do not weigh the evidence with the same rule when dealing with God as they do other things; therefor the dice are loaded and they convince themselves every time they are right. What is it? they did not like to retain God in their knowledge.... (Romans 1)

Moreover, sinners are not converted to Christ by argument alone. These things may awaken them to their need, but the Holy Spirit must do the work. You must reconcile these things with your emphasis on the Holy Spirit. if the Holy Spirit's role is as great as your writings suggest, the need to water things down is nonexistent. No matter what you or I do we cannot widen the gate- it is eternally narrow. It cannot be widened beyond the absolute Lordship of Jesus Christ.

God Bless,


Robert Wurtz II

 2005/1/5 9:56Profile

Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands



Thank you for your clear and honest words. They do more good to me than many scientific prooves of the existence of God and the reliability of the Bible (although they're also helpful of course..)


My dad and I both like cars and as a young boy I went with him to several car shows. On one occasion, I remember, he told me how the exhaust-system of a Peugeot 306 worked. I loved to hear it, although I didn't understand it all that well.

Why am I telling this? Well, lets suggest that, after my father had explained this to me, I would have said: "Well spoken daddy, but you and I both know that that doesn't work like this...I'll tell you how it works". That would be rather ridiculous. But this is what you're somewhat doing here. You're arguing with God himself, making Jesus into your own image...

[b]"Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.[/b]

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?

Who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?" (Job 38:3-4, 8)

You know when God really a WHATAGUY would have been? When He Himself being perfect, would have revealed Himself through a Letter (the Bible) that's not. Or, when He Himself being perfect, would have let people to write about Him and in His name, while they in fact didn't write the truth about Him.

I would never have a book published in my name, when it had faults in it and neither does God. I'm not almighty. People can write about me all they want and I can't do a thing about it. God can. And He did.

When you say you believe in Jesus, you also believe in the word, because Jesus is the Word (John 1).

When you say you strongly believe in the Holy Spirit, you will have a strong HOLY fear for the word of God! You know what is written about the Bible with relation to the Holy Spirit?

"The [b]sword of the SPIRIT[/b], which is the [b]WORD of God"[/b] (Eph 6:17)

You also said that we're not living in the last days. I honestly don't want to offend you, but if you say that, you're like a blind man who is being warned by another man to watch out for a pillar. The blind man says: "There's no pillar, I don't see a pillar". May God open your eyes for His truth.

"O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Rom 9:20-21)

As Shankar already said: Physics can lie, Gods word can't. And over and over again, the physicians had to change their conclusions, because they had missed a vital issue. The Bible has never!

By believing evolutionists etc. people have placed the creation above the Creator. Believing a man, rather then God.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

Even if I perhaps won't be able to defend the Bible in all ways, I BELIEVE IT! I will never question God, I only will acknowledge what GOD through Paul has written:

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."

And as the blind man of John 9 I confess: [b]"One thing I know[/b], that, whereas I was blind, now I see" (:25).

Jesus payed the debt for my sins at the Cross of Calvary with His precious blood. I've been born again by the WORD OF GOD and through regeneration by the HOLY SPIRIT. I now am able and have a personal relationship with God. And I know I will stand in front of Jesus on Judgement Day and I will be able to thank Him for what He has done for me. He didn't merely change me, He didn't merely save me...He made me a new creation. Praise God for that!

Only the truth will set you free.

Why do I live for Jesus? Because I've been saved? Because I now am able to pray? Because I'm now able to have a relationship with Him? Because He now has a personal plan for my life? That's what I can say to people, in order to make Jesus Christ attractive. But that's not the reason. The reason is very simple:

"I live for Jesus, because Jesus lives!"

A Christian through FAITH in Jesus Christ,



 2005/1/5 13:54Profile

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