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Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


You can say a lot of people meet "scriptural" conditions, but God knows if we have met the "heart" conditions. He knows what really takes place in the heart and that is what He responds to, not what falls of our lips, necessarily.

Repentance is a way of life for the Christian. Always turning away from all that is not of Him and turning to Him. That is a daily lifestyle.


 2011/9/28 9:05Profile

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1519


Hi Mikey,
I agree with god looks at the heart.
Repentance is a way of life for a christian and we should always turn away from all that is not of him but if we are being honest that doesnt always happen and with some christians that only comes with maturity,
yours Staff

 2011/9/28 17:29Profile

Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 112


Yes, I agree. I did not say it always happens. I actually think we fail more than succeed, but in our failure, we learn many things. Humility and God's ways. His ways are the only ways! The tree of life is the only tree we can eat of. The tree of knowledge of good and evil will kill every time. The spirit give life, the flesh profiteths nothing. Not even a little bit.


 2011/9/28 19:28Profile

Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 642


Don't make the words of Christ and the apostles invalid with logic. Logic is not everything, be a fool and obey Christ_ repent and sin no more.

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 2011/9/29 4:37Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37446
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Wordly Saints by Greg Gordon

Cheap Grace

Since the inception of the Church, the Gospel of Christ preached with the requirements of repentance and discipleship. Presently, the “High-Calling in Christ Jesus,” has never been offered at such a low level. Forgiveness without repentance, discipleship without obedience, salvation without sanctity, confession without consecration. Such terms as: Introspection, counting the cost, godly sorrow over sin, repentance from dead works, are all foreign to this church age of cheap grace. Dietrich Bonhoeffer states the problem with this startling phrase: “cheap grace means the justification of sin without the justification of the sinner.” This statement brings with it the gravity of the situation we find ourselves in. An unholy church is of no use to the world or to God.

Let us recognize, as Bonhoeffer did, that “cheap grace is the deadly enemy of the Church.” We are living with an epidemic of cheap grace in the Church. Flippant confession, shallow consecration, superficial surrender, and discipleship that does not follow are just some of the sure signs. This is a Christianity that is costless! We need a generation of those that are willing to “count the cost” with wholehearted devotion to God with absolute obedience to Christ. Duncan Campbell said: “A baptism of holiness, a demonstration of godly living is the crying need of our day.” But alas! today thousands of pulpits are pounding out the message upon their hearers “forgiven” yet without the exhortation “walk ye in it.” Most in the Church are utterly confused about the practical godliness, obedience, and good works which the Scriptures mentions readily. The plain fact is that the Scripture speaks of those that are wicked and righteous, ungodly and godly, sinners and saints. And the distinction of those groups are based solely on their actions; not their intellectual assent to truths about God. Christians are saved by faith but if that faith does not result in a changed life it is not saving faith but clearly shown in Scripture as the “faith of devils.” Bonhoeffer, echoing the worldly churches cry, said: “he must not strive against this indispensable grace. Therefore -let him live like the rest of the world!” God forbid! Christ did not die on the cross for a worldly Church or for worldly Saints but for a “glorious Church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Holy Sinners

Holy Sinners! is the plea that is heard to cover up the prevalent sin and ungodliness in the Church. Christ does not come into our unregenerate, sickly, impure hearts as many contemporary theologians say. He gives us a new heart to dwell in wherein is found holiness and righteousness. Sinners saved by grace? Yes, surely that is our position from whence we have been saved. But now Saints perfected by grace should be our present day standing. Nowhere in the New Testament did the Apostle Paul call the Church sinners, but rather granted them the title “Saints.” A Holy Church is God’s blessing to the world; an unholy Church is God’s judgement upon the world. Christian obedience is not legalism but rather a suitable response to true grace and true religion that is from above. David Smithers speaks to the condition of the church steeped in cheap grace and a lack of holiness: “Many within the Church today feel as if they are drowning in a river of empty words and hollow promises. Demoralized by superficial religion, their hungry hearts are crying out: Where is the real Church, mighty in truth and power? There are many who can give us a moving definition of revival, but where are the men who can move the Church with a demonstration of revival? Proverbs 27:7 tells us that, "To the hungry even what is bitter tastes sweet." Sadly, multitudes of hungry and disillusioned souls are seeking the bitter bread of a godliness that denies power, or a form of power that denies godliness. Oh, how we need the reality of revival, a revival that will restore the Church to Her former apostolic beauty of purity and power. Nothing less than this reality will prepare us to face a dying world and the coming King.”

Examples of True Christianity

In a day and age that needs desperately to see true Christianity and costly grace we must look back to those that have gone before us and see their examples. David Smithers gives us illustrations through these three men: Brainerd, Wesley, and Vassar, clear pictures of those that have “counted the cost”:
“David Brainerd consistently and fervently interceded for the lost souls of the American Indians. Often he would travail with such earnestness that when he rose from his knees he was covered in sweat and could hardly walk straight. Like the persistent widow in Luke 18, David Brainerd's prayers were finally answered. Entire camps of Indians were converted by the power of God as he proclaimed a message of repentance and grace. "Old men and women who had been drunken wretches for years, and little children not more than six or seven years of age appeared in distress for their souls. There was almost universal praying and crying for mercy. Many could neither go nor stand.” The countless hours spent in prayer and fasting, his faithfulness in spite of physical weakness and having to endure the most terrible hardships, were now rewarded openly. The fire of the Lord fell. The remarkable thing was that all this happened at a time when he confessed that his hopes were at their very lowest. He had seriously entertained thoughts of giving up while on the very brink of glory and blessing. Brainerd now saw a remarkable change in the lives of the Indians. He recorded in his diary, "I know of no assembly of Christians where there seems to be so much of the presence of God, where brotherly love so much prevails." David Brainerd poured a lifetime of holy passion, prayer and preaching into four short years. He ministered from 1743-1747, dying of tuberculosis at the age of 29, "Brainerd once wrote in his diary, I longed to be a flame of fire continually glowing in the divine service and building up of Christ's kingdom to my last and dying breath." That prayer was abundantly answered.”

“John Wesley pleaded with men to repent and by faith make peace with God or suffer in an everlasting hell. People who had entertained false hopes of salvation had their religious masks torn away by his plain preaching. Wesley believed that those who failed to warn the sinner and backslider, themselves stood under the judgement of Christ. He was determined to declare the whole counsel of God, offering the love of God in Christ and giving warning of the dreadful consequences of rejecting the gospel. Wesley wrote, "Before I can preach love and grace, I must preach sin, law and judgement." Wesley, as well as the other early Methodist preachers, was both a bold advocate and a living example of sanctification. Wesley preached with unceasing zeal that complete holiness was the primary fruit of a vibrant faith in Christ. Counseling another minister, Wesley wrote, "...till you press believers to expect full salvation from sin, you must not look for any revival." If John Wesley were to make an anonymous visit to the Methodists of today, it is doubtful whether many of it's churches would welcome him. They would most likely resent his fervent zeal and enthusiasm. When he was eighty-three he made a note that he was regretful that he could not write more than fifteen hours a day without hurting his eyes. Wesley faithfully preached almost up to the very day he died. Truly his vigor and zeal in old age were the reward of his faithful stewardship of time. He seemed to consider every thought, word and deed in light of eternity. "Amid all his arduous labors, his innumerable engagements, his coming and going, Wesley lived a hidden life of intimacy with God. When worn out with overwork he often found new strength in answer to prayer." It was Wesley's strict habit to daily spend one hour in prayer in the morning, and then another hour in the evening. John Wesley shook the world by his preaching because he first shook heaven and hell with his praying. His preaching had a sense of eternal urgency because he had touched eternity on his knees.”

“John Vassar's prayer habits made him a man of great faith. "He did not believe simply in the God of ages ago. He believed in the God of today. He could not be persuaded that the wonder working Spirit finished His operations at Pentecost. He could not be convinced that the supernatural was no longer to be looked for. He would get a church or a schoolhouse open, and then invite people out. Almost invariably a revival would commence. Often God would triumph gloriously. Converts would be multiplied. There would be apostolic work because it was underlaid and pushed with apostolic faith." John Vassar's zeal and consecration were so intense that it often astonished and offended those who called themselves "Christians". "Despised, rebuffed, and persecuted he held right on meekly and joyfully, in his simple and faithful way with his little worn New Testament in hand and his single eye fixed on Jesus. Coldness and insults were nothing to him, save that they made him sad for other's sake. No harshness could quench the ardor of his affection." Uncle John Vassar's life displays for us the balance of zeal mixed with mercy and passion mixed with patience. Many within the modern Church have strayed, believing that they can choose between such things, pursuing one virtue while neglecting others. If our churches are to meet the needs at hand, we must, like John Vassar, first be lovers of Jesus given to constant prayer. Second, we must receive joyfully ALL that the Master has laid before us, absolute holiness and joy, purity and patient love. The Church must become one with Christ, balanced with both His goodness and severity.”

Unbelieving Believers

We hold a belief that changes nothing, but claims everything. “If Christianity is to make any headway in the present time, it must be proved to be more then a theory”, stated the late Hannah Whitall Smith. What can bring death to this pattern of unbelief in this generation? What can relieve us of our sickly condition? Unbelief has us captive in chains; the church is gagged and bound as risen Lazarus, it needs release in this final hour! We serve unbelief; our minds passive to its rule and reign over us. Can you hear Jesus saying “O ye of little faith.” Faith is the enemy of unbelief. By the way we are living we show forth our unbelief unashamedly. “Help thou mine unbelief” needs to be our desperate cry. We are in captivity in our lukewarm, unbelieving, content, faithless age. And each age is marked by the testimony and witness of those that are righteous and serve God. Will God look through the annals of time and see our current generation as one that was characterized as “unbelieving?” God pleads with this generation in the words of the prophet Jeremiah: “O generation, see ye the word of the Lord.” We need to come back to apostolic belief in the word of God and the working of God by the Spirit of God. This is an hour of urgency and the church as never been so complacent.

This is a crisis hour. Will you count the cost today? The Apostle Paul urgently pleaded with the Church two thousand years ago: “it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent...” If the night was “far spent” two thousand years ago, dear brethren, surely it is nearer then we can imagine. If we knew the time and the hour, if we were awakened to the nearness of the end of time, if we realized how time is being devoured from us, then we would repent. Christ reproved his followers of the nearness of the hour and time of visitation. Shall He have to repeat Himself again to this unbelieving generation of believers? Revival is not an option, its our only hope. But with the way we are living we are saying that we are content to live without revival. Surely only a revival of religion will sweep away this heresy of cheap grace and lack of holiness in the Church?

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/9/29 6:57Profile

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re: Their is no such thing as "Cheap Grace"

I see repentance as the continuos ongoing adjustments made to a ship that has been graced with an onboard compass. How many vessels are placed in harms way that do not faithfully use it? How many more are guaranteed loss not having one at all.

 2011/9/29 10:51Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


Thank you Greg,
I appreciate the Pureness of Truth in your word and how you are able to express it.
I wish I were able to express what the Lord is teaching me .
I will prayerfully try in the only way I know.

When we realize Grace is:`The Devine inflence upon the heart and it's reflection in the life,' then it makes it more understandable.
Before we even knew God,He begain to DRAW us by His mighty Spirit.
(as we cannot even come to God except He DRAW us )This is GRACE.
If we continue in this GRACE, He will continue to reveal to us , and give us
the power to do whatever He is leading us to do.....Being..'' led by the Spirit of God''

GRACE has come to us to do a work.
THe WORD says Jesus was FULL of GRACE..
He said `It was the Father that did the works'.
He said `He only did what the Father will for Him.'
God was DRAWING Him by this GRACE and He was obeying.

Yes, IT IS a FREE gift to us ...and WHAT A GIFT !, I must say.
Because, we have NOT the strenght on our own to die to our will, and to do his will,( to follow Him). Because the flesh works against the WAY in which He
wants us to go.

Only through `This GRACE can we have peace .'

Paul was always praying this `Grace and peace ' to the saints in that day.

So...Grace and peace to us all',
in a most loving spirit,

 2011/9/29 10:53Profile

Joined: 2011/7/12
Posts: 83


Thank you, Greg!
I joined this forum a few months ago,hoping that I could find fellow believers who shared my passion to see revival in the sickly Christianity in the western world. I am not a theological student.....rather a farmer who has spent a lifetime prayerfully reading the Word and meditating on it while I worked in solitude. What I find in the glorious gospel presented in the Scriptures seems so far removed from what I hear from popular evangelical "theology" that I wonder sometimes if persecution needs to burn down our institutions with their "sin-friendly" written volumes to bring us back to the simple Word!
It is a breath of fresh air to hear of someone who believes in the Truth that sets us free from the power of sin by bringing the power of the Living God into our lives!

 2011/9/29 11:59Profile

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1519


Hi Greg,
I was lead to the lord with the plain message showing me I was a sinner and my need for a savior,if i had been told about discipleship and all that involves etc I would probably not have come.I wasnt asked did I know the costs involved,I wasnt asked to lay down my life for him as he did for me or nor should I have been.
As grace pertains to intial salvation their is no inferior or superior grace,no lower or higher grace or no cheap or expensive grace.We are saved by grace through faith,it is a gift of God.Their are two positions here in grace or not in grace.This gift is a once off deal it doesnt loose its value over a period of time.
By using the term we are hinting at least that people who stay in a sinful lifestyle for a season or longer are not saved.The problem we have is not that grace is not sufficent to cover all sin it clearly is ,the problem is that instead of saying preachers are not "preaching discipleship and holiness" from the pulpit we say attack grace and say preachers are" preaching cheap grace".Which despite the list including Wesley who as far as I know didnt use the term cheap grace,it is unbiblical term in my opinion.I understand what people are trying to get accross when they say the term.They want to say christianity without a cost!Their is a cost for the christian who stay in sin in this life and in eternity so it is not costless.Perhaps when we are trying to convert people we should tell them to count the cost of staying a sinner! Whoever preaches from the pulpit that god does not want us to become holy or that becoming holy is not important is clearly wrong .
Say what you really want to say "costless christianiy" but lets not deminish or belittle grace by saying you can have a cheap form of it.
yours Staff

 2011/9/29 19:06Profile

 Re: Their is no such thing as "Cheap Grace"

This is directed toward no one in particular....

Guess what? There actually is such a thing as a false convert and a hypocrite, but there is no such thing as "cheap grace."

In the Gospel we are called to repent and turn from the false god we trust in (whatever god that may be) and turn to the One True and Living God as revealed in the person of Jesus Christ. The God who Saves by Grace.

Walking with this God will absolutely slay you. You will have to count the cost because everything you trust in (money, success, country, family, a good name, religious works, church affiliation, prayer life, your own repentance etc.) will be put on trial sooner or later. Do we really believe in a God who loves us with an Everlasting Love, a love that had no beginning and has no end? We are loved by God without condition....that is God loves us Unconditionally! We are loved simply because we exist!

I absolutely believe in repentance. So repent and believe the Gospel! God loves you right now, just as you are. All that was necessary to reconcile us back to right relationship with our Creator was accomplished in Jesus Christ, and was already in the mind and heart of God from Eternity. ( The Works were finished from the foundation of the Earth)

Do you believe that?

Do you believe the Gospel? Have you truly repented and turned from the false god you trust in and turned to the true God, Jesus Christ?

Then I have a question for you? Why are you not at rest?

 2011/9/29 19:37

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