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 Re:

EvangelTam... not sure I agree with everything you said, but many of the concerns you expressed I also picked up on. Thats what I meant when I said I didnt agree with all of their conclusions.

But something has to be done about the utter foolishness that is most youth programs.

Krispy

 2011/10/12 6:55
Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re:

Thanks for posting this person's objections, EvangelTam!

Quote:
(1) the most important thing to keep in mind is if something only contain partial truth, it is still a lie. In the story of the Fall, everything the serpent said has truth in it, but when he twisted the truth to his liking, the result is terminal.



All true so far, to the extent that if something is partial truth, the part that is a lie is a lie-- but the part that is the truth, is still the truth.

Quote:
So, while this video use Scriptures, and has this deep desire to base church's ministry in God, because it twisted the Scriptures to say what they want to say, it defines itself as heresy. It is the same thing the Pharisees did. They took God's Laws, take it apart, and turn them into something they can "easily do" and imprison the Jews and turn their desire for God in vain.



Merely stating this does not make it a true statement.

Quote:
(2) it took a passage from Ephesian and use it as "evidence" that God's desire is not to have Youth-based Ministry but Family-based Ministry. Whoever said that is OBVIOUSLY without proper theological and Biblical training.



Are you referring to the comment Scott Brown made about how when Paul addressed the parents in Ephesians the children were addressed right along with them? That's hardly one of the main points put forth-- and not wrong either, if you're comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Quote:
They are treating the Epistles into books like the Deuteronomy. These LETTERS are, by no mean, law to live by, but they are PERSONAL letters to a Church or a group of Churches addresses issue(s) they are facing.



YOU are showing lack of proper theological and Biblical training. "Knowing this FIRST, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20) You are violating this principal. Paul also said in one of his Epistles that a man should not have his mother to wife; that it was an abomination. You said, "These LETTERS are, by no mean, law to live by". That doesn't stand here, obviously.

Quote:
For them to cipher a "rule" such as the one they suggested is a tell-tale sign of them being heretic.



A definition of heretic: "a person who holds unorthodox opinions in any field." The idea of a youth group is certainly not "orthodox" Christianity, as the film shows.

Quote:
(3) These new Christians (if they convert) are almost guaranteed to be from atheistic/agnostic/buddhist/etc families. If you continue to push this an agree with you, WHO are going to make sure these kids be brought up right? Their parents? Why would they want to bring their kids up in OUR faith? Notice the BIGGEST flaw of these tunnel visioned people, yet?



As Krispy said, that was already addressed in the film. Has this objector even watched it?

Quote:
(4) they keep talking about not seeing ANY evidence that the early Church ever had a specific ministry like youth ministry. As I said before, that is so far fetch and self-righteous talk.



Proof?

Quote:
First of all, the environment and culture are different.



God's Word transcends ALL cultures. (2 Peter 1:20)

Quote:
We won't die if we tell people we are Christians, and the world at that time operates as a unit following the decision of the head of an household. That is, if the father of the house believe, the whole house believe, no "if" or "but".



This is truly ludicrous. As if the wife and children's hearts back then were programmed to believe the Gospel simply because the father believed it. Nonsense!

Quote:
We can't just say, let's do what the early church does and we will be more with God rather than men. Excuse my language, but that is just crap. NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY HOW THE EARLY CHURCH WAS! Even the best historian can only guess.



Er,er,er! Wrong! :) The best historians are not just guessing. We have a ton (not literally) of their writings. Have you done any study on Church history? Btw, this is not just about the early church. As was shown in the film (which I doubt this person watched), The whole Sunday school/youth group idea was started by Robert Raikes in the 1700's, long after the "early church". So even long after the time most historians agree was the early church age, the church was not doing this.

Quote:
The early church was struggling due to persecutions, and still finding their way around being a "Church", so how in the world can ANYONE say whatever the early church did is of God,



They were being persecuted because they were "living Godly in Christ Jesus", therefore, they were obviously doing something of God. And btw, nobody says "whatever" the early church did is of God; that's what you said.

Quote:
and everything after are of men?



You're creating a straw-man. Nobody said that but you.


Quote:
Have you and they forgotten why were the first deacons chosen?



They were chosen to remedy the problem that the Grecian widows were "neglected in the daily ministration." (Acts 6:1) No mention of a youth group! Have you forgotten?

Quote:
Have you and they forgotten the BIG fight between the APOSTLE Paul and APOSTLE Peter over the "simple" issue of circumcision?



What does this have to do with a youth group? Let's stick to relevant subject matter.

Quote:
If this is not enough evidence "Divided" is heresy and intend to DIVIDE the Church, I don't know what is."



I'm sorry, this is not evidence for your case. Sadly, it is someone rejecting Biblical teaching.


 2011/10/12 11:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
They are treating the Epistles into books like the Deuteronomy. These LETTERS are, by no mean, law to live by, but they are PERSONAL letters to a Church or a group of Churches addresses issue(s) they are facing.



Surely you did not mean this the way it sounds, do you?? You are basically saying that everything Paul wrote is not scripture...

Do you wish to clarify this statement?

Krispy

 2011/10/12 13:10
cryinthenite
Member



Joined: 2010/9/22
Posts: 71


 Re:

Hi Krispy,
God forbid I make another rule.

I am just saying that the youth programs teach our kids that they need something different than Christ.

They think they need a youth program.

If there was a "group" of people that need Christ more than others it would be teens!

Christ is not a game, a party, a joke, a
stepping stone for some man to rachet up his career.

My kids and yours are just to precious to take a chance with them in these programs I believe.

Christ is true reality not youth programs.

Can a youth program help a kid ? Yes, just like a dead stick can hold up a living tree, but let us teach the tree to stand up in Christ and throw the dead sticks away.

 2011/10/12 20:44Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

Hey all,

Just to clearify what I posted were *NOT my views on Divided.
If you read my previous post you will see that I was posting *ANOTHER person's justification of why he believes the movie is heretical.

I wanted the opinion of other brothers and sisters on this subject as I want to be able to speak in truth in love to this person who hold the views posted previously.

I would like to thank you all esp Creation7 for taking your time to respond, it is very much appreciated!

In Christ
Evangel

 2011/10/14 1:09Profile
Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re:

Don't worry, Evangel, I knew they weren't your objections. :)

 2011/10/14 7:50Profile





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