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Creation7
Member



Joined: 2011/8/16
Posts: 159


 Re:

Quote:
I...have been met with serious accusations that this is heretical.



It's hard telling what they're referring to. It's very easy to write off something that contradicts your beliefs as "heretical", without really proving it (some people like the shock factor, if ya know what I mean. HERESY!! [Gasp!]). Heresy is a term that I think is really over-used sometimes.

I would encourage you to ask them, what (specifically) is heretical in it?

 2011/10/10 21:35Profile









 Re:

It's only heretical if it contradicts scripture. Challenge them to show you where what is being said contradicts scripture.

Krispy

 2011/10/11 6:44









 Re:

Will Jones III ... I agree with your dad. That is pretty much what I got out of it. Tons of good points being made in this documentary, but I thought the reaction and conclusions put forth were too much.

And to be honest, sometimes thats what you get with men like Paul Washer. Paul tends to take things too far, I think. Makes a tremendous point, but then carries it just a little beyond what is reasonable.

Krispy

 2011/10/11 6:49
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 604


 Re:

Youth ministry within a local church, if properly handled, can help a lot kids especially in school or campus ministries where youths are living away from their parents_
or to the new converts whose parents are unbelievers.

There are also christian parents that are struggling or weak in their faith and may have difficulty in guiding their children even to the rudiments of christian doctrines and practices.

I do not think that we should totally ban youth ministries just because of the cases where it has been abused and desecrated.

 2011/10/11 10:34Profile









 Re:

passerby... have you watched the documentary? That was all addressed in it.

Unfortunately most youth groups and "youth pastors" so-called are a joke in America. I do believe that youth groups that are actually healthy for teens are VERY few and far between.

However, as stated before, throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the solution.

Krispy

 2011/10/11 10:51
cryinthenite
Member



Joined: 2010/9/22
Posts: 71


 Re:

I think the baby and the bath water should be thrown out!

I had to pull my teens out of several youth groups.

I will never put them back in!

There is no excuse for this behavior... none!

And yes I did try to step in and help but was met with arrogance and pride by all the staff.

We will stand before GOD someday and answer for what we have done in His name.

Let us not throw our kids to these progams to lose there souls.

 2011/10/11 20:50Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 604


 Re:

Quote:

passerby... have you watched the documentary? That was all addressed in it.

Are you satisfied on the way they addressed it. Personally, there are lot of statements made that I am having serious reservation. I am still trying to access additional info at
NCFI.


 2011/10/11 21:20Profile
EvangelTam
Member



Joined: 2011/1/29
Posts: 149


 Re:

So in response to Creation here are the accusations that I received:

"If I have not already made it clear enough the danger of spreading this video, I am going to do it one more time:

(1) the most important thing to keep in mind is if something only contain partial truth, it is still a lie. In the story of the Fall, everything the serpent said has truth in it, but when he twisted the truth to his liking, the result is terminal. So, while this video use Scriptures, and has this deep desire to base church's ministry in God, because it twisted the Scriptures to say what they want to say, it defines itself as heresy. It is the same thing the Pharisees did. They took God's Laws, take it apart, and turn them into something they can "easily do" and imprison the Jews and turn their desire for God in vain.

(2) it took a passage from Ephesian and use it as "evidence" that God's desire is not to have Youth-based Ministry but Family-based Ministry. Whoever said that is OBVIOUSLY without proper theological and Biblical training. They are treating the Epistles into books like the Deuteronomy. These LETTERS are, by no mean, law to live by, but they are PERSONAL letters to a Church or a group of Churches addresses issue(s) they are facing. For them to cipher a "rule" such as the one they suggested is a tell-tale sign of them being heretic.

(3) These new Christians (if they convert) are almost guaranteed to be from atheistic/agnostic/buddhist/etc families. If you continue to push this an agree with you, WHO are going to make sure these kids be brought up right? Their parents? Why would they want to bring their kids up in OUR faith? Notice the BIGGEST flaw of these tunnel visioned people, yet?

(4) they keep talking about not seeing ANY evidence that the early Church ever had a specific ministry like youth ministry. As I said before, that is so far fetch and self-righteous talk. First of all, the environment and culture are different. We won't die if we tell people we are Christians, and the world at that time operates as a unit following the decision of the head of an household. That is, if the father of the house believe, the whole house believe, no "if" or "but". We can't just say, let's do what the early church does and we will be more with God rather than men. Excuse my language, but that is just crap. NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY HOW THE EARLY CHURCH WAS! Even the best historian can only guess. The early church was struggling due to persecutions, and still finding their way around being a "Church", so how in the world can ANYONE say whatever the early church did is of God, and everything after are of men? Have you and they forgotten why were the first deacons chosen? Have you and they forgotten the BIG fight between the APOSTLE Paul and APOSTLE Peter over the "simple" issue of circumcision? If this is not enough evidence "Divided" is heresy and intend to DIVIDE the Church, I don't know what is."

 2011/10/11 22:34Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

I watched this movie and have fairly serious reservations about it myself. The scriptural backing is both vague and incredibly tenuous.

It goes without saying that fathers need to be the spiritual guidance of their children. The non-sequitur's abound from beginning to end in this film. I have never once in my life heard a man say that he relies on youth groups to raise his children instead of himself. That may be a partial truth, but men don't raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord for far deeper reasons. The likes of which, youth groups, or the lack there-of will never do anything to fix. It is not my habit to post on threads like this, but frankly, I just felt the movie missed the point. Just another attempt to gussy up a corrupt tree by trimming the leaves...

"A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees." -Psalm 74:5

That being said, the presentation was excellent, in terms of editing, and in terms of decency, the case was made well, but I am afraid this will just be another band-wagon people will jump on thinking that they have finally found the holy grail of ministerical methodology. It will also give more people reason to grumble, complain, and cause further division. I wonder how many fathers would just watch it, and take the point home about being fathers regardless of what the "method" of their church is. Or are they going to sit around until their church decides to sanction fatherhood?


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/10/12 0:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I think the baby and the bath water should be thrown out!

I had to pull my teens out of several youth groups.

I will never put them back in!

There is no excuse for this behavior... none!

And yes I did try to step in and help but was met with arrogance and pride by all the staff.

We will stand before GOD someday and answer for what we have done in His name.

Let us not throw our kids to these progams to lose there souls.



There are churches that are teaching their youth sound doctrine and theology... and not participating in foolish behavior. Not many, but there are some. What do you do with that? Throw it out too?

Just asking.

Krispy

 2011/10/12 6:52





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