| Re: |
Thank you all for your comments. I'm not one that goes to meetings to seek "words" from folks in the prophetic ministry. But, when I do go, I'm usually the first to get a "word", and let me tell you these people are truly moving by the Holy Spirit. What has been spoken to me is 100% accurate and correct. I've never had an "out there" word that wasn't true. One man even had a word for my brother's son who lives 1,000 miles away. He didn't know him or me.
But, with these internet prophetic types, I have no way of verifying if they are speaking the truth. One thing I can say is that if they really are hearing from God, it seems to me they would be more humble about it. I do think that folks on TV think they always have to come up with something. Well, God moves on His timing and when their particular show comes on TV. Thanks for all the comments.
| 2011/8/26 1:46|
| Re: What is the credibility of this prophetic guy John Paul Jackson?|
David Wilkerson is another one that I have questions about. The guy has been so wrong on a lot of prophecies, but "The Vision" from 1973 seems to have a lot of credibility. I know a lot of folks on this board love David Wilkerson, but I am beginning to trust little old ladies that spend a lot of time in prayer over Christian people who have a lot of notoriety.
| 2011/8/29 1:36|
| Re: |
Endzone - That's the problem. Now that you have set yourself up as the official "determiner" of "who is right and who is wrong" you will normally find that very few are legitimate...in your eyes. You will only have a small circle of like minded folk that you can converse with about how this one or that one does not rise up to your standards.
You specifically mention David Wilkerson and John Paul Jackson as not meeting your approval. I have seen spectacularly good fruit from both ministries. Very different ministries... but both reaching people for the kingdom few others are or were. My question to you would be what fruit are you putting out that would validate your maturity to judge them so harshly?
Krispy went so far as to say that John Paul Jackson was not even a Christian because John Paul believes there are geographic areas that God sometimes shows up in on a consistent basis. Perhaps you should do a lot more research of the Biblical texts before bash something you may not have a full understanding of. Not wanting to debate that point here..it is just interesting if you look for the information on it what you can find in scripture about it. It seems to have happened in the Bible several times. Go listen to the accounts of the Hebrides Revival. How the "ground was permeated with God" How "if you walk that way on the road you will feel God coming up from the very ground...He is everywhere in that area". Listen to those sermons here on SI. I think you would certainly condemn those folks as well. However, maybe they have had an experience beyond what you have. Perhaps a better course of action is to not criticize their experiences but ask why it is YOU don't have them.
Strange Krispy...never once do I recall a persons belief about geographic areas and God being a condition for salvation in scripture...but you have made it one.
You said he must agree with your take on that topic or the man isn't saved... REALLY?!?!?!
I don't know everything John Paul Jackson thinks about this area... does it really matter?!?! He takes teams into the heart of the occult/new age gatherings and challenges them on their own turf with the power of God and gifts of the Spirit. The teams are willing to confront the enemies "spear tip" folks face to face...to challenge them and their god..the God who answers by fire..He is God.
When have YOU done that? Your credibility to bash another ministry is from where? What fruit have you produced to validate yourself in that marketplace? Maybe to be quiet and ask God for wisdom would be a better course of action as opposed to bashing what you know little of.
You condemned that ministry as "non believers". Below I paste John Paul Jackson's ministry statement of beliefs. I fail to see the heresy in it. I fail to see anything condemning in it. I fail to see a belief that causes a loss of salvation in it. You say they are "unsaved". The belief statement is consistent with everything I have ever heard him preach.
We believe in one God, creator and sustainer of all things, infinitely perfect, holy, and eternally co-existing in three personsFather, Son, and Holy Spiritwho are omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
On the Authority of Scripture
We believe that the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, are the Word of God. We believe that the original manuscripts are the inspired, inerrant, and trustworthy Word of God, the complete revelation of His will for the salvation of human beings, and the final authority for all matters about which it speaks. We believe that God still does everything today that He did in Scripture.
On God the Father
We believe in God the Father, who is an infinite, personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power, and love; that He mercifully concerns Himself in the affairs of mankind; that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ.
On Jesus Christ
We believe that Jesus Christ is God and that He is God's only begotten Son, conceived by the seed of the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed miracles and was infallibly taught, lived and is the Word of God from the beginning. He pre-existed with God in the form of God. He freely gave up His position, humbled Himself, and became incarnated as a man. We believe Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and mankind.
On the Atonement
We believe the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ for the atonement of our sins and His bodily resurrection provide the only ground for justification, forgiveness, and salvation for all who believe that He is the Son of God. Through the atonement, and therefore as the "last Adam," Jesus came to return all who believe in Him to the original mandate that the first Adam failed to accomplish.
We believe that accepting and confessing Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God and asking Him to forgive our sins result in a re-conception and regeneration of our lives, as the seed of God's light enters our spirit (Galatians 3:19; 1 John 3:9). This results in new birth as we become new creations in Him. This new birth or being "born again" does not make our decisions and actions immediately perfect; it is the beginning of a new way of life that allows God, in His faithfulness, to conform us to His nature (Romans 5:10; Philippians 1:6).
On the Resurrection
We believe Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead, ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father, forever making intercession for His people. Just as He resurrected from the dead, His resurrection is the first-fruits promise of the resurrection into eternity for all who believe in Him.
We believe that when Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father, He gave five ministry gifts to mankind: the Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher. These ministry gifts are to mature and unify His people, help His people grow in intimacy with the Father, and advance His Kingdom.
On the Holy Spirit
We believe the Holy Spirit is God. He came forth from the Father and the Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. The Holy Spirit is the agent of regeneration and sanctification for believers in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit makes the presence of Jesus Christ real in believers. He teaches, comforts, guides, convicts, and enables believers to live in ways that honor God. He empowers believers for ministry. He indwells everyone who believes in Jesus Christ. We believe in the present and interactive ministry of the Holy Spirit and in all the biblical gifts which He continues to give today.
On Original Sin
We believe that human nature derives from two historic persons, male and female, who were created in God's image from the dust of the earth, without the knowledge of good and evil. They were created perfect, but they sinned, thus plunging themselves and all humanity into sin, guilt, suffering, and death. Therefore all human beings are sinners by nature and by choice. We believe that God, through Jesus Christ and by the Holy Spirit, regenerates those who repent of their sins and confess Jesus Christ as Lord.
On the Lord's Supper
We believe and acknowledge the ordinance of the Lord's Supper in remembrance of Jesus and His crucifixion for the atonement for our sins. He was the Passover Lamb and fulfilled the Feast of Passover. We believe the Lord's Supper is a holy ordinance and that it testifies of our union with Him and of the remission of our sins through His sacrifice on the Cross. Partaking of the Lord's Supper in a corporate or church setting also testifies of our relationship with each other as the Body of Christ.
On Water Baptism
We believe that water baptism should be by immersion and consummated immediately after committing to the Lordship of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice for our sin. This ordinance is a personal and public statement of our faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on our behalf. It is also a commitment to follow His example and lay down our lives for the sake of His Kingdom.
On the Baptism in the Holy Spirit
We believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an additional impartation that empowers, strengthens, comforts, and is usually accompanied by the manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life. These gifts are available to all who believe. Baptism in the Holy Spirit endues and transforms the believer to increasingly take on more of the nature of Christ. We accept, acknowledge, encourage, and seek all gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit. They are present, active, and vital in aiding the Church and the advancement of the glorious Kingdom of God.
On the Second Coming
We believe in the literal, physical, personal, and visible return of Jesus Christ to the earth and the establishment of His Kingdom. We believe in the resurrection of the body, the final judgment, and the eternal blessing of the righteous, as well as endless suffering for the wicked. Only those who have made Jesus Christ their Lord and Savior and are born of the Holy Spirit are members of the Body of Christ and will spend eternity with Christ.
On the Purpose of Faith
We believe true faith is born in a believer's heart and not just in his or her mind. God requires us to exercise faith for our salvation as well as for all other issues in His Kingdom. In exercising our faith, we lift our focus above the temporal terrestrial realm to the eternal celestial realm. We focus on God's infinite nature; His desire is for our good. We grow to see that all things eternal happen through faith in God.
Our faith activates the movement of the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit of God can reveal the Son of God, and only the Son can reveal the Father. This is the Kingdom process. Eternal change can only happen as the Spirit of God initiates the Kingdom processes; thus the Holy Spirit moves and convicts the heart of mankind. Neither the eloquence of speech nor the passionate presentation of the Gospel can activate the Kingdom process and eternally change the hearts of men and women. It is God who draws us to Himself.
This is the faith statement of the unsaved? Are you kidding me?
Krispy- you pronounce judgement that "This man isn't even saved" because you do not agree with a belief he holds on God visiting specific geographic areas?? This statement of faith exactly reflects the Gospel I have heard him preach..wow.... you tread dangerous ground in my opinion. VERY dangerous ground indeed.
In closing I ask you...How does Jesus feel of your damning and condemning a member of His bride. How does he feel when you have said a person is dark, sinful, and dirty when He sees them as radiant, pure, and brilliant? You talk about His beloved bride that way and... well how would you respond?
Please stop the bashing of folks in the name of "we are watchmen". It is so bogus.
| 2011/8/29 9:26||Profile|
| Re: |
Solomon 101... great that he has that as his statement of faith.
But it doesnt really matter what his statement of faith is if HE TEACHES SOMETHING CONTRADICTORY TO IT.
Have you even investigated what he teaches? I have. It's New Age and satanic.
He is a false teacher teaching another Jesus. Therefore, the man needs to be saved.
I stand behind that 110%.
This idea that we can not discern if someone is saved or not is certainly not founded in scripture. Yes, we certainly can tell in a lot of cases, especially extreme cases like with this gentleman.
Teach doctrines of demons: not saved.
| 2011/8/29 10:08|
| Is their a portal to Hell?...Could be receiving false prophets..... |
Thank-you Krispy . I didn't have the energy to say what needed. "You shall know them by their fruit"...not their testimonies of faith.
A Wolf in Sheep's clothing wouldn't be in sheep's clothing if he didn't learn to Baa-Baa like one, would he?
Satan is called the "Deceiver"...and "Adversary"...and believe it or not, he also appears as an "Angel of Light".....actually, he always does.
The Pope claims Jesus, and did so as he tortured and burnt the martyrs...our historical family. He even prays a lot.
I've met JPJ, and know of him for 20 years, and will say that he has hurt a lot of saints...in many ways. If someone cannot discern a wolf, even with this one New Age teaching of the "PORTAL"...what can you do?
This guy is about as cultish as you can get...almost on par with Todd Bentley...but a bit more subtle. Please avoid him...no matter what he says.
| 2011/8/29 12:43|
| Re: Is their a portal to Hell?...Could be receiving false prophets..... |
Dont get me started about Todd Bently! People who dig that guy are like the tens and tens of people who watch pro-wrestling faithfully... thinking it's real.
He's another one that needs to be saved.
Save these guys, Lord.
| 2011/8/29 12:49|
| Re: |
Maybe to be quiet and ask God for wisdom would be a better course of action as opposed to bashing what you know little of.
Solomon101 I agree with your quote. The only way to know something for sure is to hear from the Lord about it. I used to have a very close relationship with the Lord, and He would answer me about just about anything when I went to the Lord in prayer. Sometimes He didn't. But, now the Lord is far away from me because of my sin, and I am at a disadvantage. I am not nearly as happy either as I used to be because my best friend (Jesus) has withdrawn Himself away from me.
But, prophetic words from people I don't know about things I can't confirm I have no idea what to think. Prophetic words from prophetic type people that have spoken to me in home groups I may not know either, but I can confirm if what they say is from the Lord or not because I know what is going on in my own life. I don't dare bring judgment against JPJ or David Wilkerson. I very much disagree with a lot of Kenneth Copeland's teaching. I met Copeland once at a high school football game about 30 years ago, and I had a rather lengthly discussion with him. I disagreed then on his interpretation of the passage about King Saul having an evil spirit of the Lord. But, I am not about bring a harsh judgment against this man. I'm sure there has been fruit in his ministry. You could argue that other people have been hurt for believing the prosperity message, giving away all they owned and winding up broke. I am tempted to say all pastors on TV are whack jobs, but I like Charles Stanley's preaching, and I think he is for real. So, I don't know what to believe brother. If BrotherTom says he's known JPJ for 20 years, and he's seen a lot of folks hurt by his ministry, that seems to be credible to me.
But maybe I shouldn't ask these questions like I do because it seems everybody is going to have a different opinion. It's all so confusing to me really.
| 2011/8/30 0:42|
| Re: Yeah SOLOMAN 101|
Thank you SOLOMAN 101.
I am amazed at the volumn of people claiming to be spiritually mature Christians yet displaying such spiritually immature actions. That makes me sad.
By the posts I see that many do not understand the gifts mentioned in the New Testament. Most are framiliar with the 5 fold gifts or callings, the call to Pastor and Teacher, and Evangelist. But there are two other office gifts; that of the Prophet and the Apostle. Read Ephesians 4: 11-13.
There are also Redemptive, or Motivational, or Design gifts. EVERY PERSON born into this world has at least one redemptive gift. It is what motivates you to do the things you do and be who you are. Those are the gifts of PROPHECY, Service, Teacher, Exhorter, Giver, Ruler, and Mercy. Those are in Romans 12: 6-8 These were placed in you at time of conception.
Lastly there are the Manifestation gifts which are gifts that come and go as the Holy Spirit wills. They are the gifts of Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healing, Miracles, Prophacy, Discerning of Spirits, Tougues, and Interpretation of Tounges. These may be found in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
The ONLY person to ever walk the earth or ever will walk this earth that operated in all these gifts was our LOrd Jesus.
SO, John Paul Jackson operates in a gift that is mostly foreign to you. That does not mean he is not flowing in His gifts. That is the way it is suposed to be. We ALL need each other and the gifts in one another to complete the Body of CHrist. WE each have our own gifts and calling to move and flow in. We will ALL be held accountable at Judgment Day for using or not using all of those gifts placed in us.
I encourage every person who spoke out against John Paul Jackson, Bob Jones, and the "KC" bunch to learn all you can about ALL the gifts I mentioned above. Find out what gifts you move and flow in and then use as much energy to edify the body of Christ as you did to tear it down. Matthew 12:36 says, "And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak."
Christ will come back for HIS BRIDE. That means EVERY church and denomination that believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Risen Son of the Living GOd despite doctrine or tradition. We are ALL His Bride. We are all ONE BODY and it is high time we began acting like it. What one denomination is strong in another may have less understanding in.
As humans why would we even dare think any one denomination or person could or should know everything about all the ways and mysteries of GOd. That is nothing more that a prideful spirit.
The Word of God says it will take ALL OF eternity to know the fullness of God. How foolish to think we have all the answers in the here and now. God is so much bigger than we can ever comprehend. God has so many ways that we do not understand yet.
I applaud totally sold out Christians like John Paul Jackson, Billy Graham, Bill Johnson, Kenneth Copeland, John Hagee, and Bob Jones to name a few, for the courage and obedience to chase God with everything in them and do what they believe they heard God direct them to do. (Even if it was in a much misunderstood gift or area of ministery.)
And as far as there not being any portals mentioned in the Bible,... Read about Jacob and his ladder of Angels assending and desending to and from Heaven. What do you supose THAT WAS ??????? I could name several.
| 2011/9/8 3:16||Profile|
| 2011/9/8 3:26||Profile|
| Re: |
I found something that straight up frightened me, my ignorance of "History" is pretty large and may show my age. But I was told about a famous mass killing of Jonestown. Forgot the founders name but at the end of his ministry and life just before he forced people to drink poisoned koolaid the video clips I watched and documentaries I watched gave you some of his sermons. What truly frightened me was this guy Jones sounded just like the faith healers guys and the todd bentleys sound today.
It seems its only a matter of time before another Jonestown Massacre occurs.
| 2011/9/8 4:00||Profile|