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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Poll: 2 in 5 Evangelical Leaders Drink Alcohol

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Lovefirst
Member



Joined: 2011/4/2
Posts: 103
Lake Charles, LA

 Re:

When I sit down at The Marriage Supper of the Lamb, I will have some wine with my Lord Jesus Christ. I can't imagine I'll be able to drink or eat but maybe I will... He will be so beautiful!

When I sit down and spend time with my wife, maybe at some restaurant or maybe at home, I will drink wine with her. I love her very much!

Why is this even relevant? How many of you are over weight? Shouldn't you not eat so much food since you are destroying your body and putting your spirit under a load it cannot continue to carry? But you don't drink alcohol right?


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Bryan Reed

 2011/9/1 21:18Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

You aren't spiritual if you drink wine. Likewise, you aren't spiritual if you refrain from drinking wine. Wine is just that... wine. Whatever you do, in whatever you eat or drink, do it unto the Lord.


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Jimmy H

 2011/9/1 21:45Profile









 Re:

Be like a deacon and have self-control. Don't be given to much wine.

1 Timothy 3:8

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

 2011/9/1 22:06
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

So, more preachers, deacons are drinking - even 'socially'...maybe this is why you have so many experiencing too many moral failure - they get carried away with their 'moderate' drinking, lose all moral restraints and hook up with the prettiest broad around.


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Sandra Miller

 2011/9/4 7:55Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I don't think alcohol is probably anymore to blame than cornbread and sweet tea. Jesus had no moral failures, yet he drank and ate enough with shady people to raise the eyebrows of the religious crowd of his day. If people are failing morally, it's because they are failed spiritually. Good trees produce good fruit, bad trees bad fruit. If you want to change the fruit, change the tree.


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Jimmy H

 2011/9/4 14:26Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Jimmy,

Alcohol has the reputation of clouding a person's moral judgement - I have heard too many testimonies declaring this fact. There are many people in prison because of drug or alcohol abuse. And too many single girls at Crises Pregnancy Centers who partied with alcohol...

Granted, abstaining from alcohol will not impart holiness, but neither will alcohol enhance it either - it does put a person at risk because he/she just might over-indulge and do something they normally would not have.

It would be very interesting to know how many times alcohol was involved in so many of these preachers' moral failures/sin.


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Sandra Miller

 2011/9/4 15:32Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

A friend of mine who was very much a raging drunk for many years once told me that alcohol never caused her to make bad moral decisions. It just gave her an excuse to make them. As drunk as she became, she said she never lost her ability to make her own decision. Granted, her ability to reason was often greatly impaired. Maybe that is not everybody's experience. But she said it personally just made her more likely to do what she already wanted to do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is not a danger to abusing alcohol. But speaking as one who has had a few casual drinks over the years, from my own personal experience I will say it takes much more than one or two drinks for the average person to get so hammered that they start making bad moral decisions. I've never been drunk, or anywhere close to it.

But frankly, in my opinion, if somebody is drunk, it is usually not an accident. A drunk person is usually such because they are entirely careless to begin with, or they set out to get drunk. I'd say most people don't get drunk on accident. If you get drunk, it's probably because you were entirely careless in your use of alcohol, or you decided you were going to drink to the point of getting drunk to begin with.


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Jimmy H

 2011/9/4 15:56Profile









 Re:1 Peter 2:15-16

But just as he who called you is holy so be holy in all you do, for it is written "Be holy because I am holy."

Is this not the issur? Biblical holiness. Sanctification. This started out as a thread with 2 out of every 5 pastors who drank alcohol. Granted socially or in moderation. Granted that the Bible not condemn the drinking of alcohol but only drunkenness.

But saints we live in a dark world that is only getting darker by the minute. Demonic activity is on the increase. Alcohol, drugs, porn, etc. is on the increase and infiltrating the church. Our spiritual leaders are getting addicted to porn. So ehen we hear of evangelical pastors who drink socially should this not be a cause for concern. Yet we want to debate this as Christian liberty or being all things to all men to win them to Christ or a new cool way to be reformed.

In the end of days wickedness will be on the increase. God is calling forth a remnant to be holy. Jesus prayed in John 17 that his own would be sanctified in truth. In Revelation 18:4 the cry is for the people of God to come out of Babylon so that they would not share in her sins and God's subsequent judgment of Babylon. I take Babylon to mean the world system.

It seems on these threads that discuss alcohol instead of discussing our freedom to drink, what of our freedom to be holy and separate as unto him.

Submitted in Christ by Blaine Scogin

 2011/9/4 18:55
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Choosing to abstain from the moderate use of alcohol is no more a commitment to holiness than choosing to abstain from soda or chocolate. As Paul said in Colossians, theologies that involve, "touch not, taste not, handle not" are not in anyway useful to real holiness. Such is merely flesh fighting against flesh. Such a philosophy appears to have a wisdom in its saying, but Paul says they are of no value whatsoever against fleshly indulgence. Instead, such is "self-made religion" (NASB), and in keeping with the "elementary principles of the world." (NASB) Such a theology will, in fact, only make one all the more carnal. (See Colossians 2:20-23)

I think we are easily persuaded by such "wisdom," because we don't truly understand what Biblical holiness is. We have a tendency to think of holiness as being found in the keeping of maxims, principles, and laws. When in truth, holiness is a gift and state of being supernaturally granted by God, to a person who has been declared righteous by God. And having been declared righteous by God, a transformation has taken place by which a bad tree was made into a good, and a different sort of fruit was yielded. Life was breathed into a dead soul, and a resurrection has taken place. We are "different" and "holy" because we are a people from the future, living in light of eternity, as if the end of the world has already taken place.


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Jimmy H

 2011/9/5 12:10Profile









 Re: Kingjimmy

Brother in all due respect I must take issue with the first part of your post. You said choosing to abstain from the moderate use of alcohol is no more of a committment to holiness than abstaining from soda or chocolate. Ok. Let's talk about that. You used the word .'choosing''. If I make a conscience choice inspired by the Holy Spirit to be holy in God's presence then that concience choice will result in certain actions. Those actions will require choices. I will choose in the course of holiness to watch the company I keep, what comes in the eargate and eyegate, what comes in and goes out of the mouthgate. These are choices that are made under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

To say that one choosing to abstain from alcohol is not a committment to Biblical holiness is not correct. If I choose to not go to an X-rated movie or go to a strip club is that not committment to holinrss? Particularly if the Spirit in me is leading to not make those choices that woukd grieve him.

The book of Romans in chapter 6 gives me and every believer a choice. The choice is to yield our bodies to wickedness or to righteousness. If we give our bodies to righteouness then that is a choice of holiness. That choice will lead to choose in courses of action that line up with righteousness. I hope this makes sense.

I am not talking about legalism but the spiritual fruit of self control. Self control that enables one to carry out godly decisions made under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Blaine

 2011/9/5 15:40





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