| discipleship and school|
Been thinking about this for a little while and maybe I am overthinking it.
What is the difference between the disciples and those who carried on the gospel even until death from the time of Jesus ascension until now and those who go to school even to the point of a PHd in any kind of religious studies?
Is one better than the other? Are Miracles more prevalent in those who are disciples without the formal education?
What is the difference between those who higher education in religious studies and those who don't have that but who still preach the gospel?
Sometimes it appears as if some are trying to be like the world without being of the word as a result. Just my thinking and I may be off my rocker.
What are your thoughts?
| 2011/8/10 9:36||Profile|
| Re: discipleship and school|
I've been thinking of something a lot lately as well Brother and I wonder if it may not go hand-in-hand with what you're thinking.
Paul tells us about "the Body" here -
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
What we see is that some can decry others of their GOD-given ministry/calling/burden, whatever one would be formed by GOD for and that's what Paul is talking about in these verses.
I think we see this often. If some don't have a burden for acedemics - they fault those who have been given that burden .... just as one example .... yet it has always been those, who gave their lives to maintain the purity of doctrine in the Church, that has kept Her on an even keel for two thousand years.
Paul says elsewhere in that chapter, that GOD gives out these gifts and others, "severely as HE wills".
Not all are called to be one of the 5 ministerial gifts in Eph 4:11 yet we respect any one of those ministries, as we should respect the giftings in 1 Corth 12 and those in Romans 12 as well.
If one has a burden to be just an intercessor - they should never mock a teacher or other burdens that the other body-members carry.
The Body needs to respect each others part in the proper functioning of the Body and not try to make us all into a foot or hand only, as Paul says above.
We also need to encourage each other rather than tear apart the members of the body that have differing burdens than we ourselves do. I admire those who have a gifting or calling that I don't and love encouraging them to "Keep On".
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way ... 1 Corth 13 ...
GOD Bless and Fill His Whole Body with Himself. Amen!
| 2011/8/10 12:04|
| Re: discipleship and school|
I just signed-out and left the room and got tapped on the head.
I forgot to tell you what initiated all of this thinking that I posted above as well.
I'm not a Teacher and I posted elsewhere that when I first came to Christ, I was led to books by Wigglesworth, Keith Green and all of the men who's articles he added to his magazine, like Ravenhill, Wilkerson, etc and a an old book titled Acts Chpt 29 ... so I was all about "the gifts" ... but after three years of that study and the experiences that go with it ... Thank GOD that He sent "Teachers" into my life to get my other leg into His Word, so that one leg was into the spiritual manifestations of His Spirit and the other leg into the acedemics of His Word - though I'm still not a teacher myself ... I owe Teachers more than I could ever relate on here and my heart is running over with gratefulness for them and all the gifts of His Spirit.
GOD Bless us all!
| 2011/8/10 12:24|
| Re: discipleship and school|
In John 7:15-16 the Jews asked how Jesus got his teaching WITHOUT HAVING STUDIED. His answer was his teaching was not his own BUT CAME FROM HIS FATHER WHO SENT HIM.
In Acts 4:13 the Sanhedrin saw that Peter and John were unschooled, ordinary men with courage . But they took.note they had been with Jesus.
Based on the above verses one would do better with the Holy Spirit and the New Testament than a Bible school or seminary. Imagine if one spent several hours a day reading the New Testament in the presence of Christ. The revelations would be profound. This is also what the persecuted church does. Their leaders do not have the luxury of formal education. Often their Biblical training is on the run with a New Testament.
I like John Bunyon's approach to the Bible. He lacked formal education. Yet he said pray and read and read and pray. According to him a little from God is better than a whole lot from men. Spurgeon said when you cut Bunyon he would not bleed blood but bleed scripture. What a testimony.
| 2011/8/10 15:11|
| Re: |
"Spurgeon said when you cut Bunyon he would not bleed blood but bleed scripture. What a testimony."
Yes, and it should be each and every Saint's testimony as well, if they own a Bible.
| 2011/8/10 15:58|
| Re: |
God has used the highly educated to formulate doctrine systematically, such as the Apostle Paul.
He equally used Peter and other disciples who were called uneducated. Each are part of the body of Christ to be used of Him.
Many times there are "battles" going on between the two groups. But if all are submitted to Him, He will work all things out for His glory.
| 2011/8/10 16:06||Profile|
| Re: |
But even Paul wrote that knowledge puffs up while love builds up. One does not need a seminary degree to fulfil the great commission.
| 2011/8/10 16:32|
| Re: |
I posed this thought/question because in most cases where we have seen a 'revival' an place or area where we have seen God work miraclous it was no doubt because of hungry hearts or just that God chose to do a work there. In the midst of it, is there an account for people in the midst of it who had PHd's or similiar who headed the work?
See, is it possible to have so much information that a person can have head knowledge and make big sermons yet be dry in heart? Do those who have the big degrees seem to hinder the move of God sometimes because of too much head knowledge? Logic would seem to dictate so but I don't have any history or stats to say yes or no on this.
I do know that when we get too close to the world we get away from God yet I ask the question, is getting the higher education degrees a part of that? After all, higher education is all about learning and getting much head knowledge but it doesn't do alot to the spirit/soul of man. It leaves it at the doorstep.
As I type thing I think of D.L. Moody, he created Moody bible institute. I wonder if he was a learned man then when preached and he never allowed the head knowledge to dull his soul? hmmmm, that might make for some good reading........
Have you ever noticed how too much head knowledge causes people to fight against each other? And when it comes to the organism called the church it creates unneeded drama and dissention because of disagreements. But is that a direct result of head knowledge?
| 2011/8/10 16:54||Profile|
| Re: |
We can read the 3 Pastoral Epistles, that Paul wrote to Timothy and Titus and just these three alone could answer all of these questions very well.
I think JB gave a very good answer also.
Brother I was thinking of Moody as well. And Torrey and a host of others - but do I feel it's a necessity? - NO.
I sat under old retired missionaries to third world nations 32 yrs ago but Now - I wouldn't go.
The main thing is just to learn how to truly study as Paul told Timothy to study to show himself approved, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
There's a way to study His Word but there's ways not to. It's just nice to know the difference so we're "no more tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine" - which from Eph 4:11-16 is what GOD gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers to the Church for.
| 2011/8/10 17:16|
| Re: Jesus-is-God|
Sister are you saying you believe in the five fold ministry of the Spirit? You believe the giftings of apostle, prophet, and evangelist exist in todays church?
| 2011/8/10 18:00|